This is indeed an attack on the RCC and you are absolutely right, - we have nothing to talk about
Why?
You scared to go mano a mano with someone who KNOWS the Faith rather than the run of the mill dummer than dirt Catholics you usually meet in the byways of life?
And if you wish to start tossing around gratuitous insults, let us remember that it was the Scottish Reformers who murdered over 4,000 priests in a just a few years for no other reason than they were Catholics.
If I were you, sir, I would wash my own hands thoroughly before you go pointing to the blood on the hands of others.
My apologies for the confusion I may have caused if I said "Greek Orthodox in Communion with Rome" The term I meant to use was "Orthodox in Communion with Rome"
You are also spot on to say "Greek Catholic".
Brother Ed
PS....the Russian and Greek Orthodox more frequently refer to us as "Uniates" *ptoooooooie* (be sure to spit after saying it!)
Last edited by OrthodoxCatholic; Fri Jan 07, 200512:00 AM.
And if you wish to start tossing around gratuitous insults, let us remember that it was the Scottish Reformers who murdered over 4,000 priests in a just a few years for no other reason than they were Catholics.
Can we have some information about this? I can't seem to find anything.
Kyle
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Mano a Mano? This reminds me of the Spanish inquisition.
Washing my hands is also impossible as it is too late for that, and thank God for a merciful Savior who did this for me and in my place.
The reformers and Puritans were hardly innocent of all sin including murder, just ask one of the 36 witches burnt at Salem.
There is one small detail that you are forgetting. The RCC did her dirty work with full loving sanction of the church canons and the "infused righteousness" of your "fathers".
Afraid? No - "futile" is a much better word.
Denny
Rom 3:22-24
Denny
Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Knox returned to Scotland in 1559, and inaugurated the work of destruction by a violent sermon which he preached at Perth. There and elsewhere churches and monasteries were attacked and sacked. Troops arrived from France to assist the regent in quelling the insurgent Protestants, while in April, Elizabeth, invaded Scotland both by land and sea in support of the Congregation. The desecration and destruction of churches and abbeys went on apace; and in the midst of these scenes of strife and violence occurred the death of the queen regent, in June, 1560. Less than a month later, a treaty of peace was signed at Edinburgh, the King and Queen of Scots (Mary had married in 1558 Francis, Dauphin of France), granting various concession to the Scottish nobles and people. In pursuance of one of the articles of the treaty, the parliament assembled on 1 August, though without any writ of summons from the sovereign. Although the treaty had specially provided that the religious question at issue should be remitted to the king and queen for settlement, assemblage voted for adoption, as the state religion, of the Protestant Confession of Faith; four prelates and five temporal peers alone dissenting. three further statutes respectively abolished papal jurisdiction in Scotland, repealed all former statutes in favour of the Catholic Church, and made it a penal offense, punishable by death on the third conviction, either to say or to hear Mass. All leases of church lands granted by ecclesiastics subsequent to March, 1558, were declared null and void; and thus the destruction of the old religion in Scotland, as far as the hand of man could destroy it, was complete. No time or opportunity was given to the Church to carry out that reform of prevalent abuses which was foreshadowed in the decrees of her latest councils. As in England the greed of a tyrannical king, so in Scotland the cupidity of a mercenary nobility, itching to possess themselves of the Church's accumulated wealth, consummated a work which even Protestant historians have described as one of revolution rather than of reformation.
One has to wonder which Jesus they were worshipping in those days? Certainly not the One Who said that we are to "love our enemies and do good to them that hate you."
And upon futher examination, I found yet another site:
I think that the charges and counter charges about that period of history could go on forever. Have you read the book Fair Sunshine by Jock Purves? The atrocities against the Scottish Covenanters are horrific.
We live in the here and now. The only truth that can shed light on any of these issues is the Word of God.
Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine Hiraeth
Thank you for your temperate response. It always seems, at least in many of the boards that I have been on, eventually someone will drift away from discussions of exegesis, hermeneutics, etc. and launch a broadside from this position. Then there is a heated response, an even more heated response, and soon there is no sense of civility left at all in the discussion. Nothing is accomplished and everyone goes away empty.
Honestly, sir, and with all due respect, I don't think you were looking too hard.
Quite the contrary, in none of the information you have provided do we see anything like the murder of over 4,000 priests by the Scottish Reformers within the course of a few years. Consequently, I must regard your charges as false until evidence in support is provided.
Kyle
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
With all respect, now is not the time for sweet talk.
I believe you are being led into a typical RC trap here. Do we deny the Word of God in the name of the very misunderstood Scriptural terms of "love" or "brotherhood"?
One may not forgive the RC for the murder of others. This might be possible if they had repented but their willingness to do so remains in their "books". Comparing the millions of torturous murders by the RC to the relatively few committed by the reformers is straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel.
We should not "temper" our arguments at the cost of truth.
"But they(the RCC) are carried away, blind and headlong, by one lust for dominion. For they think that nothing is safe unless, as the prophet says, they rule with harshness and with might. [Ezek 34:4]" Institutes 4-11-14
This by a man (Calvin) who had an RC hit squad out looking for him.
Denny
Rom 3:22-24
Denny
Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Denny? Did you read what I wrote? I never called for sweet talk. I called for BIBLICAL talk; looking to the truth of the Word to establish our conversation and not relying on emotionally driven possibly dubious historical accounts.
Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine Hiraeth
Jack Chick doesn't know anything. He does great disservice to the many who seek to reach out to Catholics with the Gospel of God's grace. James White, William Webster, Eric Svendesen, R. C. Sproul- now those are good apologists.
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
I did not quote from Jack Chick, whoever he is, but John Calvin who is always #1 on the RCC hate list. This is, of course, for very good reason. It seems that Calvin got to the heart of the matter so well that he eventually spoiled the inquisitional "fun" of your self-righteous popes.
Denny
Rom 3:22-24
Denny
Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
The reformers and Puritans were hardly innocent of all sin including murder, just ask one of the 36 witches burnt at Salem.
Point of fact Adopted, and this is seriously off topic on this particular forum but I hate seeing misinformation spread about the Puritans. There were only 20 people executed for witchcraft in Salem. None of them were burned, 19 were hanged as was the law at that time and one was pressed to death. And four others never convicted of witchcraft died in prison. There may have been more who died while incarcerated but the records are unclear.
Oh and another thing keep in mind that Neo-pagans like to promote a particular falsehood known as the "burning times" which tends to exaggerate the amount of people executed by various people during the middle ages and later. This has been frequently proven false but it is a persistent myth so it is best to be accurate when talking about witches and executions.
Peter
If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
