... and realize they are not a part of the elect? A non-Christian friend threw that question out to me via e-mail. I can think of a few responses, but figured I'd see what you folks think. So...?
...the conversion of a sinner being not owing to a man's self determination, but to God's determination, and eternal election, which is absolute, and depending on the sovereign Will of God, and not on the free will of man; as is evident from what has been said : and it being very evident from the Scriptures, that the eternal election of saints to the faith and holiness, is also an election of them to eternal salvation; hence their appointment to salvation must also be absolute, and not depending on their contingent, self-determining will.
JONATHAN EDWARDS
I believe that if a person really understands why they call themselves a Calvinist, then they would not question their election. One of the most beautiful things about the doctrines of grace is assurance.
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. - Galatians 2:16
Well, Clark Pinnock, for instance, used to believe in Calvinism. Time will only tell if he renounces Open Theism. Scott Hahn and Gerry Matatics used to belong to Reformed churches, and now they are promoting Catholic heresies.
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
While we are able to hold onto the promises of God in assurance that we are among the elect, I don't know if any living human being can actually 'realize' that they are not among God's chosen people. One can most definitely realize that they are not living in Christ, but that they will not ultimately be gathered among his sheep is hidden in the secret counsel of God.
On the other hand, I suppose that the Devil himself understands God's sovereignty quite similar to Calvin, yet he surely knows that there is no hope for his evil soul.
The bottom line is that it is Christ alone who saves, not the title of Calvinist or otherwise.
Henry said: ... and realize they are not a part of the elect? A non-Christian friend threw that question out to me via e-mail. I can think of a few responses, but figured I'd see what you folks think. So...?
Are you equating confession of Calvinistic doctrines with making ones election sure?
There never was a sinner half as big as Christ is as a Savior.
On the other hand, I suppose that the Devil himself understands God's sovereignty quite similar to Calvin, yet he surely knows that there is no hope for his evil soul.
The bottom line is that it is Christ alone who saves, not the title of Calvinist or otherwise.
I know a man who is a fatalistic Calvinist. He believes that if he's elect then nothing he does matters. He understands total depravity and God's sovereignty. So unfortunately he does nothing, just like a fruitless tree.
Wes
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Henry said: Can someone be a Calvinist... and realize they are not a part of the elect? A non-Christian friend threw that question out to me via e-mail. I can think of a few responses, but figured I'd see what you folks think. So...?
The answer is, No . . . for at least a couple of reasons:
No one is capable of knowing what God has decreed concerning His unconditional election of sinners.
Someone can profess to embrace Calvinism, but that is not synonymous with that person having been actually regenerated, justified, reconciled to God and indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
Oh..... and one more thing. No true Calvinist could conclude that they are reprobate, for the doctrines of free sovereign grace mitigate against any such thing. For the Spirit witnesses to our spirit that we ARE the children of God. (Rom 8:16; 1Jh 3:1)
Wes said: I know a man who is a fatalistic Calvinist. He believes that if he's elect then nothing he does matters. He understands total depravity and God's sovereignty. So unfortunately he does nothing, just like a fruitless tree.
Wes
That's just like my uncle. He says at the end of the day, "Whatever happened, God decreed," so he drinks, watches dirty movies, etc. and feels fine about it.
[*]Oh..... and one more thing. No true Calvinist could conclude that they are reprobate, for the doctrines of free sovereign grace mitigate against any such thing. For the Spirit witnesses to our spirit that we ARE the children of God. (Rom 8:16; 1Jh 3:1) <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /></li> [/LIST]
In His Grace,
Can anyone conclude their reprobation whether or not they are a Calvinist? I believe Scripture attests to the fact that those Hardened are blind to recognize it regardless of theological labels. Many are led to conclude and confess Doctrinal Regeneration. "There is a Calvinist road to hell just as open as an arminian road to hell.: CHS
There never was a sinner half as big as Christ is as a Savior.
Almost sounds like he is a living mockery of Calvinism on purpose. Sounds like he knows he is wrong and is making fun of the sovereignty of God.
True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
While I know nothing of these men I can't help but to wonder how, if they were or are Christ's and knew the doctrines of God/Calvinism, could they turn to heresy? I'm not asking to condemn but just out of fear that although one can believe they have assurance then turn away from the truth. In light of all of this I wonder about my own turning away. Not so much from the truth of scripture, doctrine etc. but in constantly failing in so many areas. Sorry if this is off topic but I am genuinely curious about how this kind of thing can happen.
tj "-that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection..."
Joe k said: Can anyone conclude their reprobation whether or not they are a Calvinist? I believe Scripture attests to the fact that those Hardened are blind to recognize it regardless of theological labels.
Joe,
First welcome to the Discussion Board!
I agree with you completely and that was my first point in my reply to Henry, where I wrote:
No one is capable of knowing what God has decreed concerning His unconditional election of sinners.
A person who says that they KNOW that they are reprobate is simply, perhaps unconsciously, making an excuse for their life of sin and refusal to repent and be reconciled to God. One cannot use God's decree of predestination as an excuse for not believing upon Christ. And, on the other side, one cannot profess to be a believer and use predestination as an excuse to go on sinning either.
"The secret things belong unto Jehovah our God; but the things that are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law." (Deut 29:29
It is for us to repent and believe upon Christ but not to presume or conclude that God has either elected us or rejected us. Although, we are instructed to make our calling and election sure, which is simply saying to continue to live a life of faithful repentance and holiness before God.
I believe every saint goes through a period or a season of dispair. I have wondered this question muyself. "If I am a child of God, how can I sin so much?" I believe many in scripture have had the same experience. Look at Peter after he denied our Lord with oaths and curses. IF we did nto have the witness of scripture one may be led to conclude he was unregenerate at that time, but I doubt that. Eternal security of the believer should never be used as a crutch to sin more, and this has to be balanced with the fact that saints that have fallen into dispair can be reconcilled into the relationship with God through prayer and repentance.
Every once in a while God burns our barley fields to get our attention.
This is the deceit of Satan also that leads many into doubting there sonship in Christ. WHispering into our ears, "You claim to be a child of God and look at what you did" This is heart wrentching and will cause the strongest to doubt. I get comfort from David who experienced the same thing over his life..
Joe
There never was a sinner half as big as Christ is as a Savior.
The reason the man I wrote about and your uncle don't have any convictions about God's sovereignty and man's responsibile is the apparent abscence of the Holy Spirit. For it is the Spirit who convicts us of our sin and brings about repentance and faith.
Having the knowledge of God's sovereignty doesn't save anyone. Just like having the knowledge of what Calvinism teaches doesn't save us. It can be purely academic for them.
John 15:2
Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
Wes
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
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