The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Conversion Marks

Not that our conversion 'experience' signifies that we've been converted but I thought it would be interesting to know how God reaches out to us and in what ways.

That said, I have a vivid recollection of the morning after my conversion. I was laying in bed and the thought 'read Ephesians 4:17-32' crossed my mind. I can truthfully say that I had no clue what those verses would say, I only knew that the book of Ephesians was in the Bible. When I read, however, I was overwhelmed with joy and tears as I realized how real God was/is and that He was/is concerned with me...Anyway, just another one of my many questions <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What was the nature of your conversion? single choice
	Intellectual (Salvation in Christ just made sense to me intellectually after examining the evidence)
	Experiential (Thunder!, Bolts of Lightening!...just kidding, but seriously)
	A-ha! (This is it)
	Other (Please Explain)
Votes accepted starting: Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:49 AM
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I really found this an interesting poll because I often hear about other people's salvation experiences and realize how different from my own they often are. I selected "Intellectual", but I'm not sure I would say it's because salvation in Christ just made sense to me one day, although I firmly believe it does now. Actually, I really couldn't tell you when I was saved. If you asked me at any one point in my life if I was saved, I would have said yes. But, if you asked me now, for example, if I was saved when I was 12 years old, I don't know if I could say I was. I don't think that, whether pre-salvation or post-salvation, I've had any extremely emotional experiences concerning my faith. Sometimes I wonder what that says about the true status of my faith because I hear others talk of this or that great experience or extreme feeling of joy. I don't think I've ever had one of those, and I don't know what to think when others tell me those things. I realize that a lot of the coldness in my heart is a result of the sin that is still ever-present there. I suppose the lack of emotions I feel when compared to what I hear others say makes me cling to the promises in scripture more and more. Some days it seems the promises in the Bible are the only things keeping me afloat. When I remember that before God I am free of all guilt and clothed in Christ's righteousness, that really encourages me. And when I've just been tripped up by another sin, and I remember that God has promised to complete the good work he began in me, I am encouraged to repent and look to him again. I truly look forward to that day after this life when I'm free of my sinful nature and can truly praise and worship Christ with perfect joy.

John

Of course we all (well at least most of us) realize that regeneration is solely the act of the Holy Spirit and thus we are speaking here of how this first effected us as individuals ..... Thus, is it possible to have a genuine life-changing intellectual experience and not have an experiential one as well, et. AL.? Another way of asking this is how does spiritual union with Christ impact us, intellectually, emotionally, et AL.?

I hear ya John...I think I would have to agree with Joe that you can't separate the intellectual and the experiential in a lot of ways. However, I'm not sure they come in any certain order. Even though I was emotionally moved at conversion; I think the experience was beyond emotion and intellect (if that makes sense). The experience itself was a bit of both.

As I continue to grow in my faith, albeit little by little with many setbacks, I tend to put less emphasis on emotion and more on trying to know and understand the truths of our salvation. But as much as I try to not lean on emotion, I'm moved emotionally at the reality of my sin and the mercy of my Savior. Anyway, I'll stop rambling...

I would say it was, in my instance, a process. I can recall reading the New Testament and believing it. But what I believed was not necessarily, at first, what would be called "Orthodox Christianity", some major issues, other minor.
Over time I would say the various pieces of the puzzle fell into place.

For me it was a process, also.

Other. The first three choices are pure enthusiam. There is no connection to the means of grace. The Holy Spirit works faith and gives assurance of conversion through the outward word not through man's intellectual or emotional assent.

My apologies...maybe I'm a bit slllooowww. Could you please explain? I'm not grasping what you mean by and ; unless by that you mean the outflow of the person's heart.

Enthusiam is when people believe they receive personal assurance of conversion through their own prayers, preparations, strivings, intellectual reasonings, emotional responses, etc. apart from the Word of God. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Romans 10:17. The Holy Spirit gives the assurance of conversion through the outward Word of God (e.g., reading the scriptures, preaching, baptism, the supper, etc.) not inner voices.

I very much agree with what you're saying. My personal example was not intended to justify or give assurance of my salvation through 'inner voices'. Moreover, how should one view the personal emotional or intellectual experiences in salvation? Then, should all experiences be viewed as enthusiam?

Understand also that I believe that one who places emphasis on personal experience runs a great risk of falling into error (I'm thinking of charismatics and the like especially).

Your personal example, although a little weird, was not disconnected from the outward Word of God. However, when people wish to look back to their own inner emotional or intellectual experiences for assurance rather than to Christ alone through faith alone, have they truly despaired of their own efforts?

speratus,


I'm not sure that I understand what you are saying. I did not grow up Christian, but was converted by the Lord in my mid-thirties. I can look back on the day that everything went "click" and remember being very passionately grateful and excited for a very long time. The emotional experiences were joyous. It was enthusiasm, for the realization of my salvation made me very enthusiastic.

Now, is your point simply that the emotions and enthusiasm felt at my conversion should not become the basis for my assurance, or is there some greater concern over passion and enthusiasm in general?

Once again, you are taking a thread The topic is CONVERSION MARKS . . . not assurance.

You have already expressed your personal opinion on assurance in several threads here already, in which you typically failed to provide any biblical basis for it. Now, you have a few choices here: 1) restrict your comments to the stated topic, 2) go resurrect one of those other threads on assurance, 3) start a new thread on assurance 4) keep silent. What I can tell you is that I am not going to allow you to hijack this thread.

My apologies. I did not mean to go off topic. I will keep silent.