The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Election/Perseverance of the Saints

I've been pondering the way these two fit together for awhile and I am wondering if an improper notion of Salvation, where it comes from, and how it comes about, etc., can have an adverse effect on the way a person who considers himself saved "works out" his salvation. For example, the SOS crowd (saved on Suday), the Baptist once saved always saved, and the Good Works crew. I'd appreciate some help talking through this.

P.S. I'm sure there's some dandy articles in here somewhere but I'd like to know what you all think too.

Sorry Doulos, I am going to add a link here because it inforces my answer to you. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I don't mean to go against your wishes, I'm just trying to give a good answer.

"Arminian Errors" from here on The Highway

The doctrine of soteriology is obviously very important to ones faith and to the church in my humble opinion. While I'm just a layperson and my knowledge in this area of theology is limited I'll share my thoughts.

First I would just like to start out by saying this. It is my opinion that most mainstream evangelical churches do not present the reformed view of the doctrines of grace. So I am afraid that there are many many Christians who have never heard and have absolutely no notion of what the reformed soteriological view is. It is also my opinion that this is a very sad thing and that I grieve for my fellow brethren who are working out their salvation through works. For that is what I see arminism to be, a soteriological system that requires us "man" to co-operate with God in our salvation. While this might seem like a small and insignificant thing to most, I believe it is a very very important error that opens the door to several problems that the evangelical church faces today. So to me it is not a small thing.

I believe that once someone truly embraces the doctrines of grace then you'll witness someone that is truly at peace with their saving faith. They are assured of their salvation and they understand justification by faith alone and they don't ever feel pressured to lead a life of works again.

Unfortunately, election and predestination is the major stumbling block to many arminians. I have witnessed this over and over again and I'm saddened by the hold it has on the church. We can only pray that by Gods grace that there will be a neo-reformation in the church today.

Y.B.I.C,

Dave.

May I assume that you have difficulty understanding how election to salvation by God and the believer's persevering to the end are compatible? Perhaps if you shared what you perceive is a problem(s) we might be able to help you. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,

Layman or not you nailed that one. In fact, most of what I have learned about the Doctrines of Grace I have learned on my own and slowly.

Much thanks to all here for your honest replies.

P.S. What does soteriology mean? I can't find a good definition of it.

No problem. It just occurred to me that the churches I listed have some issues with Perseverance most of the time and I thought it might be because they don't have a good grip on who's in charge of Salvation. More to the point, its not really their grip that matters, but they don't get it. Especially that bunch that has to be Saved on Sunday. Any little sin knocks them out of heaven, they think.

Anyway, just thinking and praying and reading and trying to learn.

soter= salvation
ology=the science or study of[/i]

Thus you have Soteriology: The study of the doctrine (teaching) of salvation. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good question doulos...Before I got my first Systematic I had NO clue what all these ologies were, and by the way I still don't. Which brings up another question that Pilgrim would be able to answer. Is there any possibility of going through a Sytematic here on The Highway at some point, like in the Faith of our Fathers forum?

That might be a fun thing to do! I'm "systematically" reading through Robert Reymond's Systematic on my own at the present time. JEdwards (Joe) recommended doing it that way and it has been very profitable.

tj,

Due to the size of most Systematic Theology texts and the depth to which many of the "classic" one's go into, never mind the quotes in Latin, Greek and Hebrew which many use <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" /> it really wouldn't be feasible to use them as not a few people could feel that the material is beyond them. However, what might be considered is using either Louis Berkhof's Manual of Christian Doctrine or Summary of Christian Doctrine, both which have questions at the end of each chapter. There are a couple caveats however in using one of these books: First, there is the matter of possible copyright infringement if the full contents are reproduced in full. Secondly, there is the issue of the amount of material that each new section would have which would put a strain on the database and the amount of server space used. An alternative to this would be for those wishing to participate or follow along to purchase a copy of the selected book.

Other suggestions would be entertained, of course. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,

I'd be open to doing this if others would be interested.

I carry a copy of this book with my Spirit of Reformation Study Bible. It's come in handy..... well..... almost every Sunday. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'de be willing to be apart of a study here. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Dave.

Sounds like a good idea to me. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

That sounds like a good idea. My grandchildren are using the Summary of Christian Doctrine as one of the books they are learning from in their catechism class. I find it helpful myself.

If all those who are interested in participating in a study of this material purchase a copy of this book I'm sure we could have meaningful discussions using this book.


Wes

Dave you've got a lot of material in the back of the Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible already with the Heidelberg Catechism and the Westminster Standards. By also carrying the Summary of Christian Doctrine you should be ready to defend the Reformed faith whether you go.


Wes

There is another option which I am planning on pursuing on Monday, D.v. Berkhof's Summary of Christian Doctrine is currently online by special and temporary permission from Eerdmans Publishing. So, I will try and call them and see if we can also get permission to put the book online for the purpose of the proposed study. If this pans out, then no one will have to buy the book. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bigglasses.gif" alt="" />

I'll reply back when/if I get an answer.