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#27624 Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:00 PM
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William Offline OP
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Should I avoid all works by Karl Barth?

William #27625 Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:18 PM
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Yankee said:
Should I avoid all works by Karl Barth?
Unless you are good at deciphering "Dialectic" double-speak and have a specific reason for studying Barth, my recommendation is to <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/flee.gif" alt="" />

Karl Barth was neo-Orthodox; i.e., not even close to orthodox in his theology. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,


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William #27626 Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:31 AM
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Yankee said:
Should I avoid all works by Karl Barth?

The Barmen Declaration should be studied for its application to 21st century America. As David Alan Black says, read it while you still can.

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8.08 As members of Lutheran, Reformed, and United Churches we may and must speak with one voice in this matter today. Precisely because we want to be and to remain faithful to our various Confessions, we may not keep silent, since we believe that we have been given a common message to utter in a time of common need and temptation. We commend to God what this may mean for the intrrelations of the Confessional Churches.
8.09 In view of the errors of the "German Christians" of the present Reich Church government which are devastating the Church and also therefore breaking up the unity of the German Evangelical Church, we confess the following evangelical truths:

8.10 - 1. "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me." (John 14.6). "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter the sheepfold by the door, but climbs in by another way, that man is a thief and a robber. . . . I am the door; if anyone enters by me, he will be saved." (John 10:1, 9.)
8.11 Jesus Christ, as he is attested for us in Holy Scripture, is the one Word of God which we have to hear and which we have to trust and obey in life and in death.
8.12 We reiect the false doctrine, as though the church could and would have to acknowledge as a source of its proclamation, apart from and besides this one Word of God, still other events and powers, figures and truths, as God's revelation.

8.13 - 2. "Christ Jesus, whom God has made our wisdom, our righteousness and sanctification and redemption." (1 Cor. 1:30.)
8.14 As Jesus Christ is God's assurance of the forgiveness of all our sins, so, in the same way and with the same seriousness he is also God's mighty claim upon our whole life. Through him befalls us a joyful deliverance from the godless fetters of this world for a free, grateful service to his creatures.
8.15 We reiect the false doctrine, as though there were areas of our life in which we would not belong to Jesus Christ, but to other lords--areas in which we would not need justification and sanctification through him.

8.16 - 3. "Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body [is] joined and knit together." (Eph. 4:15,16.)
8.17 The Christian Church is the congregation of the brethren in which Jesus Christ acts presently as the Lord in Word and sacrament through the Holy Spirit. As the Church of pardoned sinners, it has to testify in the midst of a sinful world, with its faith as with its obedience, with its message as with its order, that it is solely his property, and that it lives and wants to live solely from his comfort and from his direction in the expectation of his appearance.
8.18 We reject the false doctrine, as though the Church were permitted to abandon the form of its message and order to its own pleasure or to changes in prevailing ideological and political convictions.

8.19 - 4. "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great men excercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you; but whoever would be great among you must be your srvant." (Matt. 20:25,26.)
8.20 The various offices in the Church do not establish a dominion of some over the others; on the contrary, they are for the excercise of the ministry entrusted to and enjoined upon the whole congregation.
8.21 We reject the false doctrine, as though the Church, apart from this ministry, could and were permitted to give itself, or allow to be given to it, special leaders vested with ruling powers.

8.22 - 5. "Fear God. Honor the emperor." (1 Peter 2:17.)
Scripture tells us that, in the as yet unredeemed world in which the Church also exists, the State has by divine appointment the task of providing for justice and peace. [It fulfills this task] by means of the threat and exercise of force, according to the measure of human judgment and human ability. The Church acknowledges the benefit of this divine appointment in gratitude and reverence before him. It calls to mind the Kingdom of God, God's commandment and righteousness, and thereby the responsibility both of rulers and of the ruled. It trusts and obeys the power of the Word by which God upholds all things.
8.23 We reject the false doctrine, as though the State, over and beyond its special commision, should and could become the single and totalitarian order of human life, thus fulfilling the Church's vocation as well.
8.24 We reject the false doctrine, as though the Church, over and beyond its special commission, should and could appropriate the characteristics, the tasks, and the dignity of the State, thus itself becoming an organ of the State.

8.25 - 6. "Lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." (Matt. 28:20.) "The word of God is not fettered." (2 Tim. 2:9.)
8.26 The Church's commission, upon which its freedom is founded, consists in delivering the message of th free grace of God to all people in Christ's stead, and therefore in the ministry of his own Word and work through sermon and sacrament.
8.27 We reject the false doctrine, as though the Church in human arrogance could place the Word and work of the Lord in the service of any arbitrarily chosen desires, purposes, and plans.
8.28 The Confessional Synod of the German Evangelical Church declares that it sees in the acknowledgment of these truths and in the rejection of these errors the indispensable theological basis of the German Evangelical Church as a federation of Confessional Churches. It invites all who are able to accept its declaration to be mindful of these theological principles in their decisions in Church politics. It entreats all whom it concerns to return to the unity of faith, love, and hope.

Last edited by speratus; Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:36 AM.
William #27627 Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:55 PM
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I would agree to run from Mr. Barth. I haven’t read any of his works but have read a bit about him. I know that he denied the full inspiration of the Bible. The Bible errs, according to Barth, simply because of its human involvement. Barth popularized an overemphasis on God’s transcendence. Barth, and other neo-orthodox theologians thought that since God completely transcends the created order, he is therefore totally different (or “wholly other”) from his creation, making analogy between and the Creator and the created impossible, which makes any discussion about God entirely irrelevant.
Barth was influenced by Søren Kierkegaard, who I know to be another person to avoid as he believed that "truth is subjective."
Just out of curiosity, why were you interested in him?

Tracylight #27628 Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:59 PM
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Tracylight said:

Just out of curiosity, why were you interested in him?


I was just curious I have seen his name in searches for theology books. Thanks to all who replied.

William #27629 Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:32 PM
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I realize I am not answering your question directly here, but Gordon Clark wrote an excellent book about Karl Barth. Check it out, it is a good read mainly demonstrating the problems with Barth, but also some of the things that he did right.


Grace is not common.

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