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#29453 Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:25 AM
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The older I get, I realize that Christmas is not Christian at all, but just a day the commercial stores advertise to gain more money from consumers. The stores could care less about Jesus and his being born. As a matter of fact Jesus is not even mentioned in commercials on TV. Often families who make below the average pay scale cannot afford lavish gifts. Christmas is for those who have money. Many folks go into credit card debt as well. Take for example all those new X box video game systems for kids plus the games that go with it. I heard all that runs near $500.00 alone! There is nothing CHRIST-mas about Christmas.They should call it "stores get rich day".

#29454 Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:34 AM
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Your question assumes that there is only one way to celebrate Christmas. True, too often people give little thought to Christ at this time of the year (even those who profess themselves as Christians) and the types of 'celebration' you decry should indeed be avoided.

But seperating a day apart from all others to remember the birth of the Savior is a worthy action, IMO.

#29455 Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:25 PM
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This is a worthwhile and timely topic but I wonder if it is not more suited to the Open Forum or even the Chatterbox Cafe since it's not strictly a theological issue. What say the moderators?

#29456 Tue Nov 29, 2005 11:44 PM
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delvanis,

Don't be discouraged. Christmas has little or nothing to do with the list in your post. The reason to celebrate Christmas is the coming of our Savior into the world. The fact that God became flesh and dwelt among us is a very good reason to stop and pause at this time of the year to celebrate.

Just because gift giving has become so popular in the secular world doesn't mean we should be distracted from the first and best gift of all, namely God's gift of His Son.

"For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace."

"And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name JESUS, for He will save His people from their sins.”


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
#29457 Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:50 AM
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Here's an interesting essay about the commercialization of Christmas.

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Dave,

Thanks for posting that essay by David Chilton. Christmas is not just a private event but a very public one! I like the way he sums it up:

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I rejoice in the commercialization of Christmas. It signals the one time in the year when our world approaches sanity. The brightly lit houses, the evergreens garlanded with bulbs, the carols that provide the musical background for even our most hectic shopping—all creation comes alive with the message that the shift from B.C. to A.D. changed the world forever.


Wes <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
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Here! Here! I agree! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/cheers2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ClapHands.gif" alt="" />


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
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David, thank you for posting that. What an interesting perspective. I had been thinking of not celebrating at all this year. But now, I see that it is a good thing to do. Not with santa clauses and reindeer, of course, but rather if possible with joy in the Lord and adoration of our triune God. Thank you delvanis for bringing up the subject.
Patrice


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#29461 Sat Dec 03, 2005 7:50 AM
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Some how I feel we lose some ground when the government does not allow manger scenes and the stores say Happy Holidays instead of Merry christmas. The company I work for gives either a holiday ham or a holiday turkey. As for santa clause I will believe in him this year because with the price of heating oil I am hoping he will bring me coal.


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#29462 Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:01 PM
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Do not throw the baby out with the bath water. Christmas is a glorious time to celebrate the Advent of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


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I got to thinking about this and wondering just when the church began celebrating Christmas. I could probably do some research and find the answer, but with this erudite body, I'm sure somebody knows the histroy of this celebration. I've heard that Dec. 25th is somewhat of an arbitrary date and was probably already a pagan holiday that became christianized in the Roman empire. Just guessing.

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Relztrah said:
I got to thinking about this and wondering just when the church began celebrating Christmas. I could probably do some research and find the answer, but with this erudite body, I'm sure somebody knows the histroy of this celebration. I've heard that Dec. 25th is somewhat of an arbitrary date and was probably already a pagan holiday that became christianized in the Roman empire. Just guessing.

December 25th was not chosen until 350 A.D. :
http://www.briomag.com/briomagazine/briobeyond/a0005699.html
In A.D 350, Pope Julius I declared Dec. 25 the official date of Christ’s birth.

#29465 Tue Dec 13, 2005 3:10 PM
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The observance of Easter and Christmas is not a pagan practice. It is celebrating historical events in the life of our Savior. The cycle of the Christian church year which includes Chistmas, Epipahny, Lent, Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, Easter, the Ascension, Pentecost, etc., is a yearly walk through the birth, life, death, resurrection and ascension of our Savior. The major holidays like Christmas, Good Friday, Easter, and the Ascension are precious to those who understand the significance of those events for our salvation and life as Christians.
Of course Christmas and Easter superceded pagan festivals. These festivals occured at the time of the winter solstice and the vernal equinox. Christian celebrations superceding pagan celebrations shows pastoral concern for those who were new in the faith.
There is no command in the Bible to celebrate Christmas or Easter on any special day. Likewise there is no command in the Bible to worship on Sunday or Saturday or Friday or any other day of the week (lets not get into that here). Christians in the freedom which God has given them have chosen to worship on these days.


Grace is not common.
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li0scc0 said:
The observance of Easter and Christmas is not a pagan practice. It is celebrating historical events in the life of our Savior. The cycle of the Christian church year which includes Chistmas, Epipahny, Lent, Maundy Thursday, Good Friday, Easter, the Ascension, Pentecost, etc., is a yearly walk through the birth, life, death, resurrection and ascension of our Savior. The major holidays like Christmas, Good Friday, Easter, and the Ascension are precious to those who understand the significance of those events for our salvation and life as Christians.
Of course Christmas and Easter superceded pagan festivals. These festivals occured at the time of the winter solstice and the vernal equinox. Christian celebrations superceding pagan celebrations shows pastoral concern for those who were new in the faith.
There is no command in the Bible to celebrate Christmas or Easter on any special day. Likewise there is no command in the Bible to worship on Sunday or Saturday or Friday or any other day of the week (lets not get into that here). Christians in the freedom which God has given them have chosen to worship on these days.

Can you explain why before the mid 300's the church did not observe Christ's birthday?

#29467 Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:33 PM
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Re-read the post. The point is not about dates.
Should I not follow the Augsburg COnfession because it was not in existence prior to 1531? Should a Presbyterian ignore the WCF for the same reasons? Dates are not the point here.


Grace is not common.
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