The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Examination - 1 Cor 11:29

What does judge the body rightly mean? Does the body refer to self or to the corporate body at the time? IOW, is it an examination of one's self or how one is interacting with those in the corporate body.

I only read the latter this morning in researching arguments on the Lord's Supper. I always thought it as being an self examination.

Now, I heard in the past that the put to sleep warning in the next few verses should not be part of the Pastor's Invitation to the table. That it is separated from judging the body correctly. I have heard Pastors include it while others have not.

Any clarifications on the above questions.

Why does it appear that the various views on the Sacraments may be the undoing of the Reformed.

The words have similar meaning but I personally like the NKJV translation where it uses "discern the body" rather than "judge the body." To judge sounds more like pronouncement of a opinion where as to discern refers to a special ability to recognize something. By accurately discerning something one has the ability to make a proper judgement. I hope you see my logic. Without the aid of the Holy Spirit one does not have the ability to recognize/discern Jesus Christ as the Son of God nor His finished work. That's why it would be meaningless to participate in the Lord Supper without having a saving faith.

In addition to the individual's responsibility to "discern the body" the elders are given the responsibility to "fence the table" from those who are unbelievers. So that only those who have professed their faith publicly and remain in good standing with Christ's church can take part in this holy meal. There can be no union or communion with God (or His Church) without the endowment of the Holy Spirit.

If you look in some of the commentaries on I Cor. 11 you'll see that the Corinthian people had a tendency to be a bit gluttonous. They treated the Lord's Supper as if it were a common feast. Some people took large pieces of bread while others went without and some even got drunk on the wine. This is why the warning about eating and drinking judgement unto themselves if they discern not the body. (see verses 17-22)


Wes

Wes, thanks.

Is it proper in giving the invitation when fencing the table for the Pastor to give the warning of becoming sick or even dying if taking the Supper in an unworthy manner?

It's not only proper but expected that the Pastor warns those who are yet unrepentant or unbelieving to restrain from taking part in the holy meal because if they do they will be eating and drinking judgment unto themselves. This is consistant with our forms for the celebrating of the Lord's Supper as well as Paul's exhortation here in I Corinthians.

It appears some were punished with sickness, and some with death. Yet according to v.32 this chastening was intended to bring repentance so that they would not be condemned with the world. This points out how seriously we should take this sacrament and prepare ourselves accordingly. "For if we judge ourselves, we would not be judged." (v.31)


Wes

This verse has been misapplied so much. Who is worthy? Are believers worthy? I agree all who partake should be believers. I agree all who partake do with faith and repentance, I disagree that another is to judge ones "worthiness" Paul exhors to examine ones OWN self, and not others. WHat was going on in the Corinthian church for Paul to admonish them? They were acting like pigs. THe rich had turned the meal into debauchery. Paul was speaking of profane , malicious observance, filling themselves, being drunk.. not a scrutinizing fencing based on us judging others. The celebration of the meal has had both extremems. Give it to anyone, or only give it to those whom the "elders" deem fit. The truth lies in neither.

While I agree with you that "normally" we should allow another to judge himself there are cases and situations where the elders of a church must also intervene. Case and Point: Elder of a church is disciplined for adultery and goes to another state during holidays and attempts to take communion while still under discipline at his church. He was with his mistress and was rightly kept from the table.

Joe:

Of course their are examples. But just as the heresey of "Divine Right" Kings plagued the church, so has the abomination of Divine Right leaders in the church.

WHen ones worthiness to partake is scrutinized by some man made test, and ones doctrinal DNA has to line up with the elders, that has gone too far in scriptural terms.

Again I am all for fencing the table when done for biblical reasons, what I am against is when it becomes a judging witchunt based on a misinterpretation of Paul in 1 Cor.

Do you disagree with the reasons I've sighted in my previous reply in this thread?



If you do, do you also have a problem with elders exercising discipline in the church?



Wes

Wes I agree with your balance. I was just pointing out the extremes on both ends....

Unworthy participation is not meaningless. The unworthy eat and drink judgment to themselves. Many of them become weak, sick, and many die.


1 Cor. 11:18-22 goes beyond that. There must be no divisions. The elders, as stewards of the mystery, examine the communicants for a unity of faith. How can certain Reformed churches (e.g., Anglican) admit Transsubstantionists, Calvinists, and Zwiglians without discrimination? Do they all discern the Lord's body in the same way?

It is not only meaningless (unbeneficial) to the participant but brings judgement on them as well. Perhaps you didn't read my further comments above in this thread.



Not all churches have the marks of a true church. Unity is a worthy goal but not at the cost of compromising sound doctrine. For what fellowship does light have with darkness? It's nearly impossible to have ecclesiastical fellowship with those who teach opposing views. Certainly love is a key but not without doctrinal purity.

Discerning the body requires saving faith!


Wes

Wes,

Thanks! I should have read the entire thread. I agree with your comments.

With respect to a person under discipline at one church attempting to commune at another church, the elders may require visitors to submit proof (e.g., letter, phone number, etc.) that they are members in good standing of a fellowship church. The visitor should phone or visit the church well before the service so the elders have ample time for examination.

That's all well and good if:

1) The visitor(s) are aware that the Lord's Supper was scheduled to be held that day in advance of their arrival.

2) The visitor(s) are members of a church. There are legitimate occasions that a true believer may not be a member of a local church.

Of course, one's definition of "fellowship church" will determine what criteria is used even before any examination is done. On the contrary, the Bible knows no such distinction, i.e., "denomination" nor any basis to include or exclude a true believer from the Lord's Table due to one's denominational affiliation. It is the LORD CHRIST HIMSELF who invites, calls and requires His sheep to come to the Supper. And thus it is the church's responsibility to determine the individual's spiritual state in its examination regardless of where that individual attends worship.

Further, the text in question is in regard to the individual examining himself/herself before partaking of the Lord's Supper. The church's responsibility to guard/fence the Table is found elsewhere and is not Paul's consideration in this text and thus irrelevant to the TOPIC here being discussed.

In His grace,

There is one holy Catholic Church that exists without division. From this Church, Christ calls and invites believers to the holy Supper. See 1 Cor. 11:18-20.

In the case of a visitor in good standing of a fellowship church, the elders accept the doctrinal examination of fellowship church and inquire regarding the visitor's spiritual condition. However, if a visitor is not a member of any church, a much more extensive examination (and perhaps instruction) is required. If the visitor belongs to a church that teaches false doctrine, the elders may ask why the visitor has chosen to associate himself with a church that teaches error.


I agree with you but John C asked, "What does judge the body rightly mean? Does the body refer to self or to the corporate body at the time? IOW, is it an examination of one's self or how one is interacting with those in the corporate body?" John C is here connecting examination with how one interacts with the corporate body. As the elders examine the visitor, the visitor examines the elders.

Most might go to the church where they grew up and not dig into the doctrines the church teaches.