The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Character of John Calvin

A friend and I were having a discussion a while back about doctrine, and at some point I mentioned John Calvin. She told me that she had heard that Calvin had had people killed because of their beliefs and that she would not follow the teachings of anyone that was a murderer.
I pointed out that Calvinism, despite its name, is not simply the doctrine of one man.
Anyway, I looked online and there are numerous articles about Calvin's supposedly murderous life, and I don't have any other resources to check. Does anyone have more information on this or know more about it? Thanks.
Julie

J. Edwards,

I have seen other articles that truthfully present the Servetus events. This is not what is interesting to me but the spin that the enemies of the Gospel put in everything that Calvin said and was.

It is absolutely outrageous, but not surprising, to see how much the world hates John Calvin. Go to just about any Roman Catholic, Arminian Protestant or Atheist web site and you will almost inevitably see that John Calvin is number one on their enemies list. The fact that they hate Calvin is nearly always followed with lies and unsubstantiated drivel about his character and his words.

John Calvin was just a man indeed, but one that there are few who emulate in history.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rantoff.gif" alt="" />

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

Julie,

This accusation that Calvin was guilty of murdering Servetus is probably the most notorious false claim upon the man's character ever devised by men in order to discredit that system of doctrine known as "Calvinism". The fact is, there is no truth to this charge despite the adamant insistence of those who bring it forth. Those of us who are want to defend Calvin against this charge, although there is at least one individual on this Board who would refuse to read any such defense for whatever lame reason, are NOT implying that John Calvin was sinless. Surely, the man was a sinner saved by grace, which he himself openly confessed. Let him be guilty of those things for which he actually is to be found blame-worthy. But let us not heap false accusations upon him nor any man and thus be found guilty ourselves of breaking The Ninth Commandment.

1) Do a Search on this Board using the search word "Servetus" (set the time frame to 2 years or more) and you will find LOTS of discussions.

2) Read this: Was Geneva a Theocracy? by Dr. Michael Horton.

In His grace,

Easy there honcho. You can mention my name.. IT IS JOE K!!! And you know this is not what I said nor meant. Defend him all you want, read the volumns that do so also. HAs it ever changed one person? It is like decisional regeneration.

Perhaps we should practice more of decreasing while He must increase. And also follow Christ's example of humility when charged and killed. So my reasonings are not lame HH, there are scriptural.

Even if Calvin was instrumental is the death of servatus, this only confirms he was a sinner. Saved by Grace.

You do need help learning how to be more subtle pilgrim!!!!

Joe K <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bigglasses.gif" alt="" />

So would your friend throw out most of the New Testament because Paul before He was saved killed Christians. Would she throw out the Psalms of David who had a man killed so he could have his wife?

I think I've posted something regarding the murder of Servetus and Calvin's involvement in the past for the same concerns your friend had. I guess I came to the conclusion that whether the accusations are true or not; Calvin is just a man, not the Savior. Now would it be my habit to follow the teachings of so called murderers...no. However, I believe that what is called calvinism is nothing more or nothing less than the gospel...the truth of Scripture. So whether Calvin did these things or not is of no importance to me. I hold to reformed theology because I believe it is the truth not according to Calvin or anyone else, but the truth of God's word.

And to be honest, if God chose to use this vessel (me) in such a capacity for his glory, I would by no means be found without fault, and I'm not talking about pre-salvation...none of us would.

thredj,


Furthermore, I truly believe that John Calvin's elevator would skip a floor if he knew that his love and faithful exposition of the Scripture was being called "Calvinism".

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

See HH(pilgrim) I am not the only one with lame reasons!!!!!!

Even so, I dont even like making the statement calvinism id the Gospel. For the Gospel is perfect

With GREAT reluctance I'm replying to you Joe on this matter. Thredj wasn't even implying what YOU have stated elsewhere, that you won't even read articles, etc., which seek to defend Calvin or what he taught. The issue isn't about "Calvin" or any other man but rather it has to do with false accusations which defame a man's character, misrepresent what a man actually believed or taught. What it comes down to is defending the truth; whether it be a human being or a doctrine of Scripture.

What Thredj was saying, in contradistinction, is that as far as what he holds to be true, it doesn't matter whether Calvin is guilty of murder or not, which accusations are meant to not only discredit the man but more directly the doctrines which have unfortunately have been labeled using his name, aka: Calvinism. Thus, both the honor of the saints and more importantly, the honor of God is the issue at hand. One's theology should never rest upon any man, but upon the Holy Spirit's influence and enlightenment of the inspired biblical record. THAT is what Thredj was confessing. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> And I certainly am one to wholly agree.

Unfortunately, I don't find much credibility to your statement. Why? Because the Gospel is known by the comprehension and communication of words. And this necessarily involves the intellect of man. There is no "idea" of Gospel which exists somewhere in the universe, ala: Plato, of which everything else is but a defective copy and representative of it to one degree or another. Men are incapable of all knowledge (omniscience), but they are capable of comprehending truth. For this is the very purpose of God in providing through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit the written Word; that we may know the truth and preach/teach it to others. Paul often speaks of "the faith", which surely implies there was and is a corpus of truth which men have come to know and which is to be known by all. Should someone ask YOU, "What is the Gospel", of necessity, that is if you attempt to reply at all, you will express your answer in words not inspired by God. In my estimation, Calvinism expresses the Gospel far better than I could ever do if I was forced to begin totally ignorant and have to formulate the Gospel on my own. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So, what is all this leading up to? Simply this, that regardless of how imperfect Calvinism may be, it is the closest and purest expression of biblical truth, the Gospel, the revelation of God which exists among men. Personally, I am more than content to label myself as a "Calvinist", despite the fact that John Calvin wouldn't approve of that label. In fact, it has been said that the man was of such humility that he wouldn't have approved of anyone even naming their dog after him. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" /> But nevertheless, the term has been used for centuries and it functions well for the purpose that it serves, i.e., to summarize biblical truth.

In His grace,

I see the reluctance in you short response!!

HH, I respect learned people who have gone before us. I dont mind the label. What I do mund is this constant need on both sides to eiter vindicate the guru's one idolizes or destroy them. The whole idea is wrong. dead wrong.

I have read the articles for years, both sides, and what was the fruit? pretty much pits. We defend men more than we defend Christ. Now you may believe by defending men we are definding Christ, but this is not always the case. We diefy confessions, denominations, even ourselves. For instance, I make a statement that the WCF is wrong speaking of justification at regeneration/faith, and look at the ire it raises, as if I do not have the liberty to do such. SO when someone says Calvinism IS the Gospel, its wrong. People begin to look at the Gospel through "Dort lenses" and you know as well as me, this is the wrong approach. One must read the Scriptures, and if the fruit that falls is explained as calvinism, well that is fine.

John Calvin was a man beyond reproach. One who loves the Lord. I hope to shake hands with him one day, but we must always keep our eyes on Christ...not men.

I do not care less if Calvin lit the faggots of wood or added more gas, it makes absolutely no difference.

Moses was a murderer, David was a murderer, adulterer, Abraham was a lier, Paul was a murderer, Noah was a drunk, Jacob, well he was a coniver.

Thank you for the replies, everyone. Pilgrim and J Edwards, I read the articles you posted and they were very good. This article, http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/ashes.htm is very typical of what's out there, with an hysterical edge to it. They say things like, "Obviously Calvin had a heart that was full of hatred..." etc.
Thanks again, and I'm glad I'm better informed now :-)
Julie

Everyone looks at the Scripture through lenses of some type. None of us have a tabla rasa approach--not even you. All of us bring something to look at the Holy Writ with, whether it be our experiences, education, or even the English language, etc. Everyone --Arminian and Calvinists alike--claim that the Holy Spirit directs them in their interpretation of Scripture. Thus, the only question that remains is what hermeneutic we are going to bring to interpret Holy Scripture with. Of course, we desire the most biblical.

That said, anyone reading Calvin and his Institutes are richly blessed. Am I saying Calvin was perfect--no, Is he God--no, Is he to be deified--no, however what he did was give us a hermeneutic that has been further developed through the epoch of time. This hermeneutic assists us in interpreting the Scripture to its fullest and most excellent form. The correct heremenutic assists us in understanding the Trinity and their eternal plan more clearly. Calvinism, the Reformed faith, or whatever you desire to call it is the Gospel in the purest form that we have available today!

What you have failed to realize in your little rant is that most individuals when they attack the person of Calvin are really attempting to discredit the theology of Calvin. Once they get done with their villianization of Calvin then they will falsely claim that their Arminian doctrine has no such murderous villains attached to it (how they like to forget their skeletons).

Julie,

Glad we could be of service to you and helping you increase your knowledge of the truth. Truth DOES matter, whether it be the vindication of a man's character, a teaching of Scripture and/or the honour of God Himself. Many have given their lives for the truth. Should we do anything less if required?

In His grace,

Perhaps Joe. I rant because I have been around people who have diefied men and confessions. IT is not happy company. I am now done with this. I said my peace and will move on.