The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Gospel truth

an arminian believes in salvation by christ + faith , or decision which = works , condemned by the bible just like gnosticism or any other false teaching about christ <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bash.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/sigh.gif" alt="" />

And until the point where you renounced Arminianism and embraced Calvinism, particularly "Limited Atonement", can I correctly say from all that you have written in this thread and specifically your judgment that I was probably not saved until I came to understand the doctrines of grace, that you were not saved?

If you are consistent in judging yourself (Matt 7:1-5) then what you are believing and promoting is "doctrinal salvation". You can protest all you like but it doesn't remove the truth of the matter. And I can honestly tell you, indeed I MUST tell you, that if you truly believe that you are saved because [by grace] you believe TULIP, then you are yet dead in your sins and are in need of Christ's imputed righteousness. No one is reconciled to God through doctrine.

John 1:12-13 (ASV) "But as many as received him, to them gave he the right to become children of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."

It is sufficient that one believe in the person of the biblically revealed Lord Christ and that His death and resurrection is sufficient to cleanse from all sin.

John 6:35-40 (ASV) "Jesus said unto them. I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger, and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, that ye have seen me, and yet believe not. All that which the Father giveth me shall come unto me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I am come down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that every one that beholdeth the Son, and believeth on him, should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

What is essential for salvation is GRACE! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/larrowred_pulse.gif" align="absmiddle[/img] Grace, brings conviction of one's sinfulness and of sin. Grace, convinces of one's hopelessness and helplessness. Grace, reveals the loveliness of Christ and one's entire need of Him. Grace, impresses the sufficiency of His atoning work to bring reconciliation with God and remission of sin. Grace, stirs up one's soul to desire holiness. And eventually Grace brings one to a fuller knowledge of that Grace which saves. (cf. Col 1:9, 10)

The Gospel speaks of a sinner's whole need of the Lord Jesus Christ . . . NOT doctrine. All those other cults, sects and heretical theologies share in common the fatal error of "synergism"; salvation by faith + xxxx. That is what will keep one from being redeemed; from being reconciled to God and rescued from the judgment to come.

Until you come to realize the truth of this and continue to embrace your "salvation by Limited Atonement, or whatever doctrine you elevate where it replaces Grace", you are in peril of losing your soul no less than those you would consign to hell because they don't believe in a particular doctrine. :sad:

In His grace,

1) VERY simplified working definitions of the terms:
Foreordination: The determining of all things; their beginning and their end, including all things to bring them to their appointed end.

Predestination: The determination of God to save certain individuals in Christ Jesus.

Yes, predestination is a doctrine which is irrefutably revealed in Scripture. And, it being the foundation of salvation in Christ, it should be made known, but handled with care. It can be very useful in one's speaking of God and salvation, e.g. to humble a sinner's pride who thinks that redemption of his/her soul is a matter of their own decision, etc. On the other hand, it can be very comforting to one who believes that there is no hope for themselves due to their sinfulness.

I agree 100% with this quote. The specific details of the secret will (decretive will) of God is unknown to us. But it has been revealed that God has decreed (foreordained) all that should exist and all that should occur in regard to them for the explicit purpose of exalting His own glory. The revealed will (prescriptive will) of God is all that is written in His Word. And it is this which we are to give are whole attention and obey; conforming our lives according to all holiness.

In His grace,

wow pilgrim, you get off telling me I am dead in tresspasses and sins for believing the gospel , and you have not once said anything about an arminian being lost for believing in works. I really thought you were more advanced in your undersanding than what is being revealed now. Answer me this question. Was saul of tarsus saved prior to his damascus road encounter with christ ? Please explain your answer.

oh by the way , I do believe in eternal justification. But for right now I want to see where your understanding is. Can we say or would paul say he was a christian, a beliver, before he believed in christ through the gospel revealation given him? Again explain your answer. Thanks...

The only thing I am missing is your answer? (however, I went ahead and made the point here)

Those that are truly saved are saved by believing in the person of Jesus Christ alone. Salvation is a gift of God and not by your striving to have a perfect understanding of doctrine (which can be said to be a form of Arminianism). If we all had to have perfect doctrine then all of us without exception, would be lost—including the Apostle Peter (Gal. 2).

Your posts support a form of Gnosticism (referring to the idea that there is special, hidden knowledge that only a few may possess), not Christianity. Your idea of “atonement” lies in what knowledge (i.e. limited atonement, etc.) someone may or may not have and not in the God-given faith they have in Christ alone for salvation.

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/puke.gif" alt="" /> Gnostic Arminianism

<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ranton.gif" alt="" />
Well I think twelve pages of this crap is enough. Pilgrim deserves a medal for not booting you, yes you beloved57, about a week ago--and you're still arrogant and abrasive. Its ridiculous. And quit asking people to explain their answers. You don't want an explanation, you want to argue and start trouble. You're trolling and YOU know it. So quit.

Heck I'm a Baptist and I've learned more from these folks--some of whom you've chewed out, which I can't say I appreciate--this year about theology than I have in something like fifteen years of Sunday School. If you want to learn, stick around. If you don't, kindly accept my humble invitation to move along.

Of course I don't run things and those who do are exceedingly gracious, which is why you're still probably going to post more contentious malarky.
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rantoff.gif" alt="" />

Hey how 'bout those Texas Rangers huh?

Are there specific truths about christ and his death that must be preached in a gospel message ? Do we need to be specific about who christ is and what and for whom his death
was for ?


This above question was the start of this thread. Darryl, next time just post what your intention is. That is obviously has nothing to do with your "question." Id like you to read the following quote, from a man who fought for his understanding as zealously as the next.

Taken from: http://www.prca.org/standard_bearer/...5.htm#RESPONSE:
A recent quotation from Rev. Herman Hoeksema, which Rev. Woudenberg furnished to a pastors’ newsgroup on the Internet, demonstrates the same charitable attitude. It is a quotation taken from the Banner, January 2, 1919. “You know, a Calvinist (excuse the term; I am not any too fond of it myself. Never do I use it if I can help it. I don’t think I have used it a half dozen times from the pulpit, which is not very frequent in three years and a half), I say a Calvinist is after all a distinctive Christian. Not all Christians are Calvinists. Mark, I say: ‘not all Christians are Calvinists.’ They may be Christians all right. Sure! Dear children of God, with whom I love to shake hands. I don’t believe that there is a Calvinist that denies this. I don’t think that there is a Calvinist who maintains that the Calvinists are the only Christians. And those who love to waste paper (and that in this time when paper is so valuable!) by fighting against Calvinists who maintain that they are the only Christians on earth, are fighting a shadow, a product of their own imagination. No, but I claim that a Calvinist is a Christian of a distinctive type, with distinctive principles and views, in distinction, namely, from other Christians. Never let any method of reasoning lead you to the belief that all Christians are Calvinists, for then things will be getting so dark, that you lose all power to distinguish. The Methodist is a good sincere Christian, all right. Of course he is! A dear brother. But he is not a Calvinist. The same is true of the Anabaptist, the Lutheran, etc. All together they constitute the church of Jesus Christ on earth, as long as they confess that Jesus is the Christ. But within that large circle there are different shades and forms of faith, and the Calvinist also maintains his own distinctive world and life view in their midst. Now, what I mean to say is that to maintain your distinctive character as a Calvinistic Christian, you must not merely be able to discern clearly what distinguishes you from the rest, but you must have the courage of your conviction such as can be the fruit only of the faith in the Word of God. Only the conviction that our form of faith is the purest expression of Scripture (again, mark, I do not say: the only form or expression) can give us the courage to refuse amalgamation. And therefore, it is necessary, that we are conscious of the relation between our Reformed Faith and the Word of God.”

Perhaps you are incapable of comprehending things as you ought?? Or perhaps you are as doulos suggested, i.e., you are nothing more than a troll . But whatever the reason is, you certainly have many things wrong and fail to comprehend what other people write. What I said was that IF you believe that you are saved BECAUSE you have embraced "right doctrine", then you are no different than any other unbeliever who has not embraced Christ by grace through faith. Frankly, as far as my not being as "advanced" as you thought I was, I couldn't care less. For from what you have revealed about yourself, I dare say, being "advanced" according to your standards would be a huge step backward.

Was Paul saved before he believed upon Christ, you ask? Absolutely not! We here believe firmly in the biblical doctrine of "Sola Fide"; justification by grace through faith, alone. We do not find "justification by decree" anywhere in Scripture. Paul, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit puts it quite succinctly and quite sufficiently when he writes:

Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Clearly, predestination facilitates calling and resultant of that calling comes justification. And immovably wedged between "calling" and "justification" is faith. This is Christianity 101. It is one of those essential elements of the Gospel without which no one can be saved. Have you a true living faith in the Lord Christ? If you were charged with being a Christian, what biblical evidence would one find to convict you?

Oh... btw, we have already thrashed through this subject of "eternal justification" here on the Board. You will NOT hijack this thread and continue its discussion under this topic of "Gospel Truth". And in case you haven't been exposed to Berkhof's discussion on this topic, you can read it here: Eternal Justification.

In His grace,

Could you please show the Lord some respect by taking a little extra time and writing His name with capital letters please. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bash.gif" alt="" />

who said anything about being saved because you believe in right doctrine ? Because being the key word here. Show mw where I said that ? As far as justification in eternity, nah I would`nt want to discuss that with you, but if you don`t mind I will search out and see your comments on them !

13But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Thats flat out ecumenism !

Very Good you can copy and paste Scripture. Do you care to move to the 3rd grade now and explain what it means.