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#33373 Mon Jun 19, 2006 1:26 PM
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"So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him."

Fellow Highwaymen and Highwaywomen,

From my Arminian, evangelical background my knee-jerk reaction to this passage is that it's exhorting Christians to DO MORE. This is what most of us in mainline evangelicalism hear Sunday after Sunday regardless of the text preached: spend more time in the Word, more time in prayer, get invoved in church activities, small groups, mission outreach, etc. It all sounds so much like human effort and works.

But then I look at a passage like the one above and I ask myself: What does the author mean by "make every effort"? Is this not, in fact, a command to use whatever human capacity and ability we have to be found spotless and blameless? How else can it be interpreted?

Since becoming aware of Reformed theology and the doctrines of grace, I have seen how much of what I heard in mainline evangelicalism was a variation on the "What are you doing for God?" theme with the attendant warning that otherwise you would become a mediocre, fruitless Christian. I have rejected much of this teaching but have I perhaps missed something?

Any observations from someone more familar with a Reformed perspective would be greatly appreciate.

In Him,
Relztrah

Relztrah #33374 Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:00 PM
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Reltztrah,

CONTEXT, Context, context! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> If the text itself isn't clear enough, e.g., "spotless", "blameless" and "in peace", verse 11 sets the topic of what Peter is addressing:

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2 Peter 3:11 (ASV) "Seeing that these things are thus all to be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be <span style="background-color:yellow">in [all] holy living and godliness,</span>"
Peter's primary teaching is that there is a day coming when all men will have to stand before God and give an account of their lives. (vs 7) The earth as we now know it will be burned up and a New Heaven and New Earth will be ushered in, upon which the children of God will dwell forever. Knowing this, he says, it is incumbent upon all those who name the name of the Lord to conduct them properly now, living lives that are holy. The "externals" which you mention, e.g., praying, reading Scripture, attending worship, etc., are not specifically addressed. What is in focus is one's personal holiness as befits believers.

In His grace,


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Relztrah #33375 Mon Jun 19, 2006 3:04 PM
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Jonathan edwards puts it thus:


At the same time, Edwards is equally insistent on the saints' reflex activity resulting from regeneration or efficacious grace. He calls on the converted to live the converted life.13 'In efficacious grace,' he explains in his treatise, 'we are not merely passive, nor yet does God do some, and we do the rest. But God does all and we do all. God produces all, and we act all. For that is what he produces: our own acts. God is the only proper author and fountain; we only are the proper actors. We are, in this respect, wholly passive and wholly active.'14


There never was a sinner half as big as Christ is as a Savior.
Pilgrim #33376 Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:23 PM
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pilgrim says:

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Peter's primary teaching is that there is a day coming when all men will have to stand before God and give an account of their lives.

Does All men include believers ?

beloved57 #33377 Mon Jun 19, 2006 6:38 PM
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beloved57 said:
pilgrim says:

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Peter's primary teaching is that there is a day coming when all men will have to stand before God and give an account of their lives.

Does All men include believers ?

B57 if you understood the bible you wouldn't ask this but letting scripture answer scripture:
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For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
(2Co 5:10 ESV)


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Peter #33378 Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:44 PM
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since you are such a good bible teacher, please explain 2 cor 5:10, exegete it, give the sense and meaning. Anyone can quote a verse <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bananas.gif" alt="" />

beloved57 #33379 Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:56 PM
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beloved57 said:
Does All men include believers ?
Of course! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" />


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beloved57 #33380 Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:08 PM
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beloved57 said:
since you are such a good bible teacher, please explain 2 cor 5:10, exegete it, give the sense and meaning. Anyone can quote a verse <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bananas.gif" alt="" />
Well, isn't that just a perfect example of the kettle calling the stove black! [Linked Image]

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beloved57 #33381 Tue Jun 20, 2006 2:09 AM
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beloved57 said:
since you are such a good bible teacher, please explain 2 cor 5:10, exegete it, give the sense and meaning. Anyone can quote a verse <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/bananas.gif" alt="" />

Well if Pilgrim gives me leave I shall but I must question whether you will be around long enough to see it happen.


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo
Peter #33382 Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:23 AM
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So then what will happen to those elect and regenerated who are not making every effort to be spotless and blameless, those who are indeed not living holy, godly lives? Excuse me for thinking like an Arminian here, but that's what I've been doing for 30 years. Old habits are hard to break.

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Boanerges said:
Well if Pilgrim gives me leave I shall but I must question whether you will be around long enough to see it happen.
Save your fingers, brother. It was decided to give this person his leave, which was way overdue. Put plainly, he has been [Linked Image]

So, the topic remains as it was intended, II Peter 3:14. [Linked Image]


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Relztrah said:
So then what will happen to those elect and regenerated who are not making every effort to be spotless and blameless, those who are indeed not living holy, godly lives?
I think the Apostle Paul sums it up nicely where he wrote:


1 Corinthians 3:12-15 (ASV) "But if any man buildeth on the foundation gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay, stubble; each man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it is revealed in fire; and the fire itself shall prove each man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work shall abide which he built thereon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire."


A person's ultimate salvation is not at issue, but rather the rewards received are. This does NOT have to do with eternal security. Those who live presumptuously and think that they may sin that grace may abound are in all likelihood without Christ to begin with. One is either justified before God by grace through faith in the Lord Christ, or one is guilty before God and will be condemned according to their evil works. James is the one who stresses this aspect,


James 1:21-27; 2:24, 26 (ASV) "Wherefore putting away all filthiness and overflowing of wickedness, receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deluding your own selves. For if any one is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a mirror: for he beholdeth himself, and goeth away, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But he that looketh into the perfect law, the [law] of liberty, and [so] continueth, being not a hearer that forgetteth but a doer that worketh, this man shall be blessed in his doing. If any man thinketh himself to be religious, while he bridleth not his tongue but deceiveth his heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before our God and Father is this, to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, [and] to keep oneself unspotted from the world. . . . Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. . . . For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, even so faith apart from works is dead.


In His grace,


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Relztrah said:
So then what will happen to those elect and regenerated who are not making every effort to be spotless and blameless, those who are indeed not living holy, godly lives? Excuse me for thinking like an Arminian here, but that's what I've been doing for 30 years. Old habits are hard to break.
If truly elect they will be judged accordingly (Jacob, elect, deceiver, judged, loss of reward, but eternal life; David, elect, adultery, judged, loss of reward, but eternal life). However, the way a life is lived may also be evidence of whether a person is truly elect or not (Cain, Esau, etc.), et. al.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
Pilgrim #33386 Tue Jun 20, 2006 3:11 PM
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Thanks brother I'd rather concentrate at the task at hand then devote my energies to someone who didn't really want to listen.


Peter

If you believe what you like in the gospels, and reject what you don't like, it is not the gospel you believe, but yourself. Augustine of Hippo

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