The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Holy Spirit comes from love?

Ran into this view recently:

As the Father begets the Son, similarly the Holy Spirit
is the product of their love for each other.

First time I ever heard this idea on the Holy Spirit.

Seen it twice in the last two days.

Once from C.S. Lewis, whose theology is known to be odd,
except his oddities aren't generally wrt to the Trinity.

The other was an internet forum and claimed
many scriptures support this idea but named none.

Anyone know of Biblical support for this idea? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratch1.gif" alt="" />

thanks,
- Kurt

Kurt,

I have never heard of that claim that the Holy Spirit is "product of their (Father & Son) love for each other". Nor have I ever found anything in Scripture that would support that idea. Historically, the word "proceeded or proceeding" has been used in reference to the Holy Spirit as in the Holy Spirit "proceeded from both the Father and the Son", although not in regard to time as all three persons of the Trinity are co-eternal and co-equal. The most well-known statement on this matter is undoubtedly the Athanasian Creed:

Whoever wills to be in a state of salvation, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic¹ faith, which except everyone shall have kept whole and undefiled without doubt he will perish eternally.

Now the catholic faith is that we worship One God in Trinity and Trinity in Unity, neither confounding the Persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, another of the Holy Spirit. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is One, the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit; the Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated; the father infinite, the Son infinite, and the Holy Spirit infinite; the Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet not three eternals but one eternal, as also not three infinites, nor three uncreated, but one uncreated, and one infinite. So, likewise, the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty; and yet not three almighties but one almighty. So the Father is God, the Son God, and the Holy Spirit God; and yet not three Gods but one God. So the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; and yet not three Lords but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by Christian truth to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be both God and Lord; so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, there be three Gods or three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made nor created but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and the Son, not made nor created nor begotten but proceeding. So there is one Father not three Fathers, one Son not three Sons, and one Holy Spirit not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity there is nothing before or after, nothing greater or less, but the whole three Persons are coeternal together and coequal. So that in all things, as is aforesaid, the Trinity in Unity and the Unity in Trinity is to be worshipped. He therefore who wills to be in a state of salvation, let him think thus of the Trinity.

But it is necessary to eternal salvation that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. The right faith therefore is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man. He is God of the substance of the Father begotten before the worlds, and He is man of the substance of His mother born in the world; perfect God, perfect man subsisting of a reasoning soul and human flesh; equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, inferior to the Father as touching His Manhood. Who although He be God and Man yet He is not two but one Christ; one however not by conversion of the Godhead in the flesh, but by taking of the Manhood in God; one altogether not by confusion of substance but by unity of Person. For as the reasoning soul and flesh is one man, so God and Man is one Christ. Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again from the dead, ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of the Father, from whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies and shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life eternal, and they who indeed have done evil into eternal fire.

This is the catholic faith, which except a man shall have believed faithfully and firmly he cannot be in a state of salvation.

1. apostolic/universal

That love is the product of the Father's love for Christ and Christ's love for the Father is from Augustine, et. al.. In his book, "The Moral Quest: Foundations of Christian Ethics," Grenz basically states that same thing. It of course is not correct, but ...

The Concise Oxford Dictionary of The Christian Church says it differently, but ...I think it is suppose to mean the same thing ...

and in his "Three Philosophies of Life: Ecclesiastes," Peter J. Kreeft says, "The love between the Father and Son is so alive that it lives a life of its own, a Person in its own right, the Third Person of the Trinity." (page 107, Song of Songs, Life as Love). <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />

And there are yet others that say God = the Father, Jesus = the Son, and the Holy Spirit = the mother.

Ok, thanks.

I'll chalk that one up to another of Lewis' oddities.

- Kurt

Well, perhaps Augustine's particular statements on this subject are his unfortunate philosophizing? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" /> As for Kreeft... well, consider the source! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rolleyes2.gif" alt="" />

Regardless, the original question was in regard to the Holy Spirit being the product of . . . which is damnable heresy as stated in the Athanasian Creed. Why? Because a "product" is the result of something outside itself which would of necessity mean the Spirit was "produced" by the Father and Son etc... which would make it impossible for the Spirit to be co-eternal with the Father and Son and co-equal with them.

Let's face it, the person of the Trinity is for the most part incomprehensible to us mere mortals with our infant ability to understand the Infinite One. However, what we can know has been revealed in Scripture and to that we must rest and our inquisitive minds prohibited from trying to peer further in to the mystery of God. What we know is that the Father is called "GOD, the Son is called "GOD and Spirit is called "GOD" yet there is but one GOD. Therefore, the three persons ARE the ONE TRUE GOD. To even suggest that the Spirit is a "product" of the Father and Son's love is to violate what is clearly revealed about the person of the Holy Spirit.

For me, the "Athanasian Creed" and the "Nicene Creed" are more than sufficient for this simple believer to embrace. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

See also this excellent article: The Deity and Procession of the Holy Spirit, by George Smeaton.

In His grace,

Yep - Kreeft probably used Augustine as his source. For being so revered, Augustine sure had some odd views!

Steve