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How old is the universe #37978
Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:46 AM
Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:46 AM
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Eastern US
john Offline OP
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How old do you think the universe is? I was just curious what others thought. I purposely did not include "I don't know".

John

How old do you believe the universe is?
single choice
Votes accepted starting: Mon Oct 15, 2007 12:00 AM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.
Re: How old is the universe [Re: john] #37979
Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:48 AM
Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:48 AM
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Eastern US
john Offline OP
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Just for the record, I chose 6000-10000 years old.

John.

Re: How old is the universe [Re: john] #37980
Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:02 AM
Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:02 AM
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Northwest Indiana, USA
Wes Offline
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John,

According to the Bible and the Jewish calendar creation occurred about 6000 years ago.


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Re: How old is the universe [Re: Wes] #37981
Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:28 AM
Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:28 AM
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Wes,

I thought some young-earth scholars have put some wriggle room in the calculation to expand it out some from the 6000.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: How old is the universe [Re: John_C] #37982
Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:43 PM
Mon Oct 15, 2007 8:43 PM
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Northwest Indiana, USA
Wes Offline
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John,

I feel confident that Scripture supports it being around 6000 years ago. So you say there are differing views on this. What are you hearing John?


Wes


When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Re: How old is the universe [Re: Wes] #37983
Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:47 PM
Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:47 PM
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Wes,

I don't really get into the detail specifics of the exact time. I have heard mostly the 6000 - 10000 figure with an occasional 6000 - 20(25)000 figure thrown out. I am definite a young-earther.


John Chaney

"having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith . . ." Colossians 2:7
Re: How old is the universe [Re: John_C] #37984
Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:38 AM
Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:38 AM
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Quote
John_C said:
Wes,

I don't really get into the detail specifics of the exact time. I have heard mostly the 6000 - 10000 figure with an occasional 6000 - 20(25)000 figure thrown out. I am definite a young-earther.

Lightfoot in 1644 and Ussher in 1650 used biblical genealogies to estimate the earth’s creation date to be app. 3294-4004 BC. App. like this:

Quote
In the book of Genesis (5:3-5) we are told that Adam lived 130 years. He had a son named Seth. That Seth lived 235 years and had a son named Enosh. Enosh had a son named.... (and so on). We add these years from Adam all the way to the birth of Abraham - which give us 2008 years. In addition, Abraham was the beginning of the nation of Israel, thus we use other Bible references dealing with the nation of Israel (i.e. Gen. 12:4, 1 Kings 6:1, 1 Kings 11:42, Ezekiel 4:5), which would bring us to the destruction of Jerusalem which sources (outside of Scripture) record it to have occurred in 565 BC.

Adam to Abraham: 2008
Abraham Enters Canaan (Gen. 12:4) 430
Start of the Temple (1 Kings 6:1) 480 (479 + days)
To the Division of Israel (1 Kings 11:42) 36 (36 + days)
To the Destruction of Jerusalem (Ezekiel 4:5) 389 (389 + days)


TOTAL (From creation to the destruction of the temple) 3,418 years.

Taking the 565 (the year that the temple was destroyed) and adding 3,418 years would mean that creation occurred 4004 BC. This would make the earth app. 6,010 years.

However, we need to account for “some” genealogies that existed, but that there is no record of … (some "sons" are actually grandsons. In Exodus 6:16-20, we find only four generations listed between Levi and Moses, etc.). Thus, an estimate of app. 10,000 years is noted to insure we have a correct span of time.

If we use some science in our examination of the earth’s age we may also “confirm” (though we believe without confirming) what the Bible says is true: http://www.gospeljohn.com/youngearth.htm

God wasn’t too concerned that we know the year of creation. Genesis does not say, “in the first year God created in 6 days, …,” but rather “in the beginning God created …”. Now, common sense tells us that creation was in the first year of time as we know it – yet this is not the emphasis in Genesis. God’s emphasis for us is that He began things – that He began time, space, matter, etc. His emphasis in scripture is not so much the exact “when,” but the exact “who.”

It is also important to note that in some respects God created the earth mature. He did not create seeds and then plant them. He created mature plants that produced seeds to reproduce other plants like itself. He did the same with all of life on the earth including animals and insects. There was a Garden (mature) for Adam to care for, birds were flying, fish were swimming, and Adam seemed to be created of a particular age – able to think, name the animals, communicate, understand, like the opposite sex, and walk with God, etc. Thus, even if some “materials” in the universe are ever proven to appear to be “older” that 6000-10,000 years old, they still do not disprove that creation was not within the last 6-10,000 years, as God created things with an apparent mature age. Some would call this deceptive, but I think of it as more stylistic, and after all, God told us he created stuff mature. He even tells us in part why, for He says, “For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe …” (1 Cor. 1:19-21; 3:19; Job 5:13).


Reformed and Always Reforming,
Re: How old is the universe [Re: J_Edwards] #37985
Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:24 PM
Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:24 PM
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Thanks Joe,

I much agree with what you have said.

Quote

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe …”


I don't believe we should forget that the Scripture tells us of its sufficiency. We need to remember that the search for origins necessitates the search for the Originator.

Any speculations about our creation beyond the words of God are futile. The reason for this is that there exists an infinite number of possible speculations (secular or creation "science" are not excepted). Even a drunken Las Vegas gambler will tell you that only a fool would bet on the odds of one out of infinity.

Why not accept and believe the truth and limited version of creation by Scripture Alone? Is it possible that our omniscient God had reasons for not giving us a manual of the exact "scientific" details of our creation ex nihilo? Again, only a fool would say no to this question.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24


Denny

Simon Peter answered Him, "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." [John 6:68]
Re: How old is the universe [Re: john] #37986
Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:54 PM
Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:54 PM
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William Offline
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[Linked Image]

Just so you all know the leading authorities on this subject say that the universe is several billions of years old give or take 50 to 100 million. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/threadvolution_blink.gif" alt="" />

However I choose 6 to 10,000.

William

Re: How old is the universe [Re: J_Edwards] #37987
Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:14 AM
Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:14 AM
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Eastern US
john Offline OP
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Quote
J_Edwards said:

Taking the 565 (the year that the temple was destroyed) and adding 3,418 years would mean that creation occurred 4004 BC. This would make the earth app. 6,010 years.
However, we need to account for “some” genealogies that existed, but that there is no record of … (some "sons" are actually grandsons. In Exodus 6:16-20, we find only four generations listed between Levi and Moses, etc.). Thus, an estimate of app. 10,000 years is noted to insure we have a correct span of time.


That's one thing I was never sure about when reading the genealogies of Genesis: how much they "telescoped". That's why I put 6-10,000 years.

Quote

It is also important to note that in some respects God created the earth mature. He did not create seeds and then plant them. He created mature plants that produced seeds to reproduce other plants like itself. He did the same with all of life on the earth including animals and insects. There was a Garden (mature) for Adam to care for, birds were flying, fish were swimming, and Adam seemed to be created of a particular age – able to think, name the animals, communicate, understand, like the opposite sex, and walk with God, etc. Thus, even if some “materials” in the universe are ever proven to appear to be “older” that 6000-10,000 years old, they still do not disprove that creation was not within the last 6-10,000 years, as God created things with an apparent mature age. Some would call this deceptive, but I think of it as more stylistic, and after all, God told us he created stuff mature. He even tells us in part why, for He says, “For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe …” (1 Cor. 1:19-21; 3:19; Job 5:13).


This is something I think about all the time when people try to argue from "science" that the universe is billions of years old. When I talk about God, they think of a god who is still bound by the rules of the universe, which isn't much of a god at all.

John

Re: How old is the universe [Re: john] #37988
Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:15 AM
Sun Oct 21, 2007 9:15 AM
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Quote
john said:
How old do you think the universe is? I was just curious what others thought. I purposely did not include "I don't know".

John


Just for those who didn't vote or aren't registered, the results are

How old do you believe the universe is?
Users may choose only one (15 total votes)
~6000 years (or less) 2 - 13%
6000-10000 years 10- 66%
10000-50000 years 2 - 13%
50000-100000 years 0 - 0%
up to 1 million 0 - 0%
>1 million to billions 1 - 6%

Re: How old is the universe [Re: john] #37989
Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:04 AM
Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:04 AM
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The bottom line on this issue for me was when i found out the word day in Hebrew can be interpreted several ways, ie 24 hrs. or any part of a day,any period of time or an age to name a few.This coupled with the fact that the Bible is rich with figurative, meteforical and spiritual language and meaning forces me not to take a dogmatic literal view.Jim_M

Re: How old is the universe [Re: Jim_M] #37990
Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:07 PM
Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:07 PM
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Virginia
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Quote
Jim_M said:
The bottom line on this issue for me was when i found out the word day in Hebrew can be interpreted several ways, ie 24 hrs. or any part of a day,any period of time or an age to name a few.This coupled with the fact that the Bible is rich with figurative, meteforical and spiritual language and meaning forces me not to take a dogmatic literal view.Jim_M


Jim,

You have to consider context as well. Genesis is historical narrative. The creation account is historical narrative. It's not metaphorical (although it is spiritual, as all Scripture is God-breathed). Yom may, in some places, not refer to a literal day, but in Genesis 1 it says, "there was evening and there was morning." This phrase indicates that a literal day is in view. Evening and morning are what divide the days.


Kyle

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Re: How old is the universe [Re: CovenantInBlood] #37991
Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:50 PM
Sun Oct 28, 2007 8:50 PM
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No figurative language in the creation account??? "tree of life, tree of knowledge of good and evil, serpent, flaming sword??? See Revelation 22- for who the tree of life represented, if the tree of life represented Jesus (Is their any other tree we can eat from and live forever?), What did the tree of knowledge of good and evil represent and what about the flaming sword?

Re: How old is the universe [Re: Jim_M] #37992
Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:09 PM
Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:09 PM
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Yes all scripture is God breathed, but that is not exactly what i mean when i say spiritual meaning, i am thinking more in terms of what Paul said in 1Co 2:12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
(NIV)

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