The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Perfect mistake

I have been wondering about this for a few days..
I just heard a few days ago a Christian comedian named Brad Stine.. pretty funny guy.. anyway.. He made a comment that went something like this. "could you imagine being Jesus' brother? Mary would come home and see the broken vase and be like, JOHN!! and John is just standing there going, ""oh yea, must have been me...It could not have been Jesus; oh no, He is PERFECT!""...

My question is this.. Are all "mistakes" sin? Is it possible to mess up without sinning?

For example, and I use Jesus as my example because He is perfect.

Could Jesus have been walking through His house as a child, tripped on His own robes, hit a vase and break it, and instead of trying to hide it or fix it He just goes to His mom and dad and said, "Hey, I was walking, I tripped, this broke.. I'm sorry..

Is this mistake a Sin? or would it make Jesus imperfect?

I also ask because in my studies I believe that there was some time between Joseph leaving, (through death or some other reason) and left Jesus to provide for His family.. And Jesus was a carpenter.. Could He, while making a chair, make a wrong cut or place a nail incorrectly?? Or would all of this go against His "perfect"(I dont know how the Bible would define PERFECT) nature? And I am curious about this because if He COULD NOT make a wrong cut or place a nail wrongly, would His furniture not be the best? And in that nature not sell the best? (I say sell the best because in my own life, it would seem that people look for quality products)

Anyway.. I have been pondering this and any insight would be great!

I see there have already been 10 "views" and no replies, so I'll risk being the first to totally blow this.

If mistakes and errors like tripping over stuff, choosing the wrong nail, cutting a piece of wood the wrong size, etc result from the Fall in the garden; and Jesus' physical body was not subject to the effects of the Fall (He had no human depravity), then He never tripped and fell, never cut a piece of wood the wrong size, etc. But we are told also that He "learned obedience from the things which He suffered (Hebrews 5:8)." So He didn't know it all from birth, even though He was wholly God and wholly Man.

We are also told that He was tempted in all the same ways we are. And I know I've been tempted to get mad and break something when a low table jumps in front of me while I'm walking. Maybe Jesus tripped, walked into furniture or walls as all pubescent boys do during those awkward years - yet without sin. He didn't react by getting angry and kicking the object He stumbled over. Perhaps He laughed at Himself and said, "did you see that? Stupid table jumped right out in front of me!"

-R

I agree, Robin. Sin is any transgression of, or want of conformity unto, the law of God. In my opinion, cutting a piece of wood too long and having to cut again is not against any command of Scripture, unless it is due to half-hearted labor.

I would say that many thorns and thistles are a result of the fall in general, but others are due to our own sin.

I also agree. If Jesus had miss-cut in His carpentry He would have cut it again to a perfect measure as our God does love in His omnific wisdom to measure impeccably. He would have done this so as not to sell or contract (covenant) an imperfect product.


The Atonement of our Lord was perfect measure for the sins of His elected children.

Again:


To error in measure is indeed human, but to steal, covet or cheat is depravity and depravity was totally absent in our Lord.

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

So it seems the consensus is that it is POSSIBLE for Jesus to, or anyone for this matter, make a mistake without sinning AS LONG AS there is no negative or sinful response to the mistake; IE.. kicking the chair after tripping on it??

Do any of you guys know of where I might find a "Biblical" definition of the word perfect? I am trying to do a study and the idea of being perfect and more Christlike but I can't find any solid "definitions" if you will, or any place that specifically talks about being perfect OTHER THAN saying that God and Jesus are both perfect and separated from sin.

Scripture speaks of Christians being perfected. As it is a process in our sanctification. We will never be perfect this side of glorification.

John_C, I understand the ideas of Sanctification and glorification and our never being "perfect" on this side, yet I am still looking for a "definition" if you will, that the Bible gives of the idea of perfection. The only thing I have found so far is that the Bible tells us 2 things.. 1: God is perfect and separated from sin. 2: We as humans are not perfect, and we are born into bondage with sin. I guess a more elementary way of asking my question would be this.. Is perfection merely defined as a 100% separation from sin?

Perfection is a nebulous term as it relates to our Christianity. Maybe a better comprehensive understanding or realization of sin helps in this. Was Christ more than just 100% separation from sin. I guess I'm referring more to the omission of sin. Our desire is to be more Christlikeness in our daily walk. That involves action, just not keeping from doing the bad (sin). Do we exhibit the fruits of the Spirit?

Sorry, that's the best that I can do in terms of description.

I thank you for your input John_C. It has helped me begin to create a better understanding of "perfection" from a biblical POV. I just want to make sure I understand your most recent post.

were you trying to say that just keeping away from sin is not "perfect"? Because perfection would require us to be like Christ, and Christ did things, (the actions you were speaking of) that not only were not sinful, but beneficial to the people around Him in their own edification?

Clint,

Yes, that is where I was heading with it. Still, anything that we do will pale-infinitely as compared to Christ Jesus. Our aim should be that of following God rather that self-reflection on ourselves.

Perfect is the wrong word, the word is sinless.

That said, many errors could be considered sin. Often a mathematical error could be sin, one made by error, laziness, etc. So if sinless, Jesus would never have measured incorrectly or failed to measure, as that would have been due to laziness, a sin.

He also would not have made mathematical or other errors based on lack of knowledge. If you ask me something, and I speculate/guess and am wrong, that would be sin, as I am assuming knowledge I do not really know. If based on the facts at hand I give an answer, that later turns out to be wrong, that would not be sin.

WOW. Sin is a moral shortfall. I'm sure that Adam, in the Garden before the introduction of sin, stubbed his toe. What is important is that his reaction to that event was not a sinful one. He might have said "Oww!" but he didn't take the Lords name in vain or lay blame where it didn't belong.
The hiumor in the joke you reference is obvious, and itis funny, but no something of that nature is not sin, not according to scripture.