The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Presbyterian Chruch USA Is schism inevitable?????

I live less than an hour's drive from Pittsburgh, which has more Presbyterians per capita than any other city in the nation.Several churches have left the denomination for the much more Biblically-centered Evangelical Presbyterian denomination. I'm fortunate to belong to a congregation that has not been imbrued with "power-religionism"......that is...
I've noticed a certain shift in my own church to the left in recent years and I'm starting to wonder how long it will be before I'm faced with the same dilemna that compels thousands each year to walk away from the PCUSA...and not look back.

I need feedback...God Bless

Most of us here, who belong to a Presbyterian church, either belong to the PCA or OPC church. IMO, the PCUSA is beyond any kind of renewal, especially one that is Bible-based. The travels of the EPC will be interesting in the coming years as many from the PCUSA who are social conservative, yet theological liberal will transplant themselves to EPC churches.

I was blown out of my chair to learn recently that Montreat Presbyterian Church in North Carolina has disaffiliated with the PCUSA-along with several other congregations.I'm thinking"What will become of the PCUSA Montreat Conference?! What's next?!-The New Wilmington Missionary Conference?!"
My very first exposure to Presbyterianism was by way of Dr. D.James Kennedy. My cousin Rick,a native of the "burgh",has really kept a finger on the pulse of defection from the PCUSA in Western Pennsylvania. He told me emphatically:

"Eric,it's not worth the fight.At some point,you'll have to leave the PCUSA,yourself.I'm not saying you have to leave now,but you're going to have to leave."

Maybe you and Rick,a retired State trooper,have a point.

You do know that James Kennedy was a Pastor in the PCA, not the PCUSA.

I don't know anything about the goings-on with Montreat.

Hence, my cousin's point.My very first Presbyterian exposure was that which espoused a decidedly more Biblically cogent view;as stressed by such foreordained mortal vessels as Knox,Calvin,Beza,Edwards,etc.
Yet at 17,I was oblivious to the HUGE chasms of doctrine that existed between the various Presbyterian bodies politic. With absolutely no idea that the PCUSA was so besieged with heterodox agents,I united with a congregation that was within walking distance to my home(but I still drove).
In reflection,I had much growing up to do;as we all are works in progress.Having been blessed with a deeper appreciation for the gravity of the inerrancy and immutability of the Father's election....I had a rude awakening.Many who I thought were stalwarts and outstanding examples of ecclesiastical rectitude proved to be less that a tenth as truly pious as the average member of the Crips or Bloods. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/takethat.gif" alt="" /> Their sleight of hand, complete indifference to the Confessions and general Biblical illiteracy led me to many a doctrinal war!! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/takethat.gif" alt="" />;upon cessation of which,I was conveniently labeled intolerant!
Ahhhhh...the games so many so-called adults played in church;predicated on tendencies toward laxity that kicked into maximum overdrive in the years following WWII.
-Kennedy's observation-and I concur!!!

It actually says a lot that the EPC is much more conservative than the PCUSA...

The EPC's that I've known of are basically your average white bread "evangelical" (Beth Moore, Rick Warren, et al). IIRC they allow women to hold office and one church I know of even has a priest play their organ and even preach from time to time... <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/flee.gif" alt="" />

A priest?? That's unreal.But,yes Marie, it's absolutely getting crazy.I read to day that another church, namely St. Paul's Presbyterian in Somerset,Pennsylvania,has voted immediately to disaffiliate from the PCUSA. I get the distinct impression that my days therein are numbered...I'm growing tired of dealing with the terminally disingenuous and Biblically challenged. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/Banghead.gif" alt="" />

"Most of us here, who belong to a Presbyterian church, either belong to the PCA or OPC church"

Where are there PCA and OPC churches in Oregon? I know of one OPC but imagine there are more of either or both.

I browsed the church directories in both denoms for churches in Oregon.

OPC - There are 7 churches. Located in Bend, Corvallis, Grants Pass, Medford, Newberg, Portland, Roseburg.

PCA - There are 5 churches. Located in Aloha, Beaverton, Eugene, Portland, Salem. The last three may be church plants as they have meeting places different from mailing addresses. They all have websites.

Well, here's the latest.The Kansas minister that moved to withdraw his flock from the PCUSA has been officially defrocked.The PCUSA really has come up with some hard ball tactics against those who wish to leave the denomination

What was their reasoning?

Preaching in a pulpit that is Presbyterian,but not PCUSA can get a PCUSA minister in very hot water very quickly.The churches that opted to immediately disaffiliate seem to have fared better than those who sought a genteel exit <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/takethat.gif" alt="" />Make no mistake...spiritual warfare is raging in parts of my denomination.

Here's the latest


Presbyterians Vote on Lesbian Clergy

By LISA LEFF – 3 days ago

RICHMOND, Calif. (AP) — A Presbyterian deacon who has twice been denied ordination because of her sexual orientation can move forward with her bid to join the clergy.

The regional body of the Presbyterian Church (USA) voted 167-151 Tuesday night in support of Lisa Larges' application, despite the denomination's long-standing ban on openly gay ministers. Larges, 44, still must submit to an interview with the regional body as soon as April, church officials said.

Larges said after the vote that she was proud of the church members' decision, despite the heavy opposition.

"The church is a beautiful, messy thing," she said. "It's about loving the church in spite of the church. It's about being part of a movement to call the church back to its best self."

While the meeting represented a third try for Larges, it was thought to be the first test of a policy adopted by the Presbyterian national assembly giving local presbyteries the right to ordain candidates who declare conscientious objections to specific church teachings, said Jerry Van Marter, news director for the Presbyterian Church (USA).

The constitution of the church says only members in traditional man-woman marriages or who are sexually abstinent may serve as clergy, elders and deacons. Larges has submitted a statement to the Presbytery of San Francisco declaring her disagreement with that policy, calling it a "mar upon the church and a stumbling block to its mission."

The presbytery represents 77 churches and about 29,000 parishioners in the San Francisco Bay area.

Those who oppose Larges' application said they would appeal Tuesday's decision through the church court.

"The presbytery's action constitutes a willful disengagement from the denomination's requirements, breaking trust with every other presbytery by not requiring compliance with church mandates," said the Rev. Mary Holder Naegeli, who presented the minority report at the meeting.

The church has other openly gay ministers, Van Marter said. The current policy banning the ordination of sexually active gays and lesbians to the ministry was enacted in 1978, and a number of ministers who were ordained before then have since come out to their congregations.

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