The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Zechariah 12:10

Zech 12:10 is speaking of Christ's return and the Jewish recognition of Him as their Messiah. In a verse shortly before it, however, Zech 12:7, the reference to the divided house of Judah and Jerusalem is clearly referenced, that which has to be applied in context to the Zech 12:10 passage.

Therefore, unless at a future point in time Israel once again becomes a house divided, is it not mandatory to address this spiritually (Jews/Judah-perhaps? vs Jesus-David's house, Christians).

But to do so, isn't it necessary for a person to make his/her own call on this by applying any thought of the modern Jews being represented by Judah? At what other place in the Bible can we find a reference to the modern Jews being represented as "Judah" to such an extent?

Second, once the Jews recognize Christ as their Savior in Zech 12:10, why must the events in the early part of Zech 14 take place shortly thereafter? Is the assumption that they recognize Him in Zech 12:10 but yet still refuse to accept Him despite the mourning taking place?

I'm really confused by this. Hopefully one of you can help. Thanks so much.

The prophet Zechariah is speaking about a future conversion of the Jews brought about by an extraordinary outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Looking back at verse 7 we see that the Lord will give salvation to Judah first so that the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem may not surpass that of Judah. The people of Judah lived in tents and were dependent on Jerusalem which was a fortified city. Judah is chosen first because of her meek acknowledgment of dependence on Jerusalem. God chooses the weak to confound the mighty, that all human glorying may be set aside.

As to verse 10 CALVIN explains "spirit of grace" as the grace of God itself (whereby He "pours" out His bowels of mercy), "conjoined with the sense of it in man's heart." When the Spirit is poured out there will be awakening and renewal. Don’t get hung up on the distinction between Judah and David or Jews and Christians. Zechariah is an Old Testament prophet who calls the covenant people of God to repentance and faith in God and the future Messiah. As Paul tells us in his letter to the Galatians in chapter 4 verses 28-29 “there is neither Jew nor Greek” but “if you are Christ’s then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to the promise.” No more distinctions between tribes and tongues but oneness in Christ.

Wes

Thank you so much for your reply and the good answer, Wes. What you said makes the most sense to me by far from the standpoint of comparing what you said to the internet articles I've found concerning this.

I still do not specifically understand why the events in the early part of Zech 14 must take place after the Jews acknowledge Christ in Zech 12:10, that part isn't clicking yet, but if I can look at it in this new way you've shown me, hopefully everything will fall into place. Again, I thank you.

Olpo5,


Our understanding of the teaching of Zechariah is greatly helped when we recognize that the prophet gives pictures of the future in snapshot fashion, in which the pictures are not placed in any particular sequence. When we read a passage, we see only what is happening in that snapshot, not how it relates to other snapshots. Further, the prophet portrays even the present blessings that Christians enjoy in terms of imagery and customs of Old Testament life.

Zechariah’s visions combine the present and the future in an interwoven fabric that is impossible to tear apart. That is why it is often difficult to ascertain what time period the prophet has in mind. The promises relate to both the immediate audience in Zechariah’s day and also to the distant future. This “telescoping,” or compression of the near and distant future, is a common feature of the prophetic writing.

The welfare and future of Jerusalem as the holy city is a pervasive theme in Zechariah. Several of the visions develop this theme. Chapter 8 presents a picture of Jerusalem, with God in her midst, dwelling in beautiful tranquility. The book ends in chapter 14 developing the theme of the ideal Zion longed for in the Old Testament. Keep in mind that chapter 14 gives us a picture of the coming day of the Lord where judgment and deliverance are carried out. The last part of the book pictures the universal blessing that God will bestow in the final state.

Wes

Wes, one final question for you on this one if you have the chance to respond-

Can we be absolutely certain that Zech 9-14 does speak of a future fulfillment? Zech 9 and the donkey was fulfilled during the life of Christ; certain preterists have attempted to relate the early portion of Zech 14 to the Roman siege under Titus. The majority of the Christian commentators I've read from feel that Zech 13:1-7 relates to the disciples having scattered at the time of Jesus' death on the Cross.

If we were to pull those together, the one part that wouldn't work with the rest would be Zech 12 itself. But why must we apply the scene here, if nothing else the heart's message itself concerning such, to a futuristic Jewish nationalistic gathering?

Why can't the individual reader, be that person Jew or Gentile, recognize what took place at the Cross in this specific verse of Zech 12:10 for what it was? Under that scenario, wouldn't the Preterists have this portion of the story right, to a certain extent?

At such point, it would seem, the individual issue is left up to the individual him/herself. If the entire passage, speaking mainly of the events from Zech 9-14 are literal descriptions of what took place during Jesus' life as proclaimed by Zechariah some 600-700 years earlier, why must we insert the scene of a future based nationalistic fulfillment of this block of prophesy when in fact Jesus Himself became the high King of this world at the time of His death?

At the very minimum, would this not put a quick end to the many Jewish questions asking why Jesus never returned them to their homeland? Would it not offer a mystery in the riddle, so to speak? And would that answer not be Faith itself, Faith in what has already accomplished at the Cross and the path by which the heart is led as a result.

The final question being, therefore, is this REALLY a prophecy intended for the future by itself, or was Paul's comments concerning the full flock of the Gentiles coming in prior to the Jews so to speak,the final Word involving such.

It may be a crucial question because of the importance we as humans tend to place on the Jewish homeland of Israel which is the key point I'm trying to get to, I guess, aside from pointing out that our Savior's death was final and complete at the time it took place, IE-when we as Christians gently brush aside those "Why didn't Jesus return us to the homeland" questions stemming from blood born Jews, why are we required to say that such will occur at His second coming?

Where is there Biblical evidence to demand the question be answered in such a way when in reality the boundary between the modern non Christian Jew and Christ could be the inner pride itself in the individual case and thus, the question for us might be, where is the specific Bible verse that tells us specifically Jesus will return to the homeland of Israel to address the ancient Jews in such regard as we might suspect based on our individual assumptions that Zech 12:10 does indeed reflect a future, nationalistic gathering in/among the Jewish homeland?

olpo25,

You might find the following helpful:

- Are Restoration Prophecies Being Fulfilled Today?, by Dr. William Hendriksen

- Prophesy and the Israeli State, by John Wilmot

In chapters 9-14 the prophet Zechariah turns his attention to the future of God’s kingdom, developing his theme in two lengthy oracles (chapters 9-11 and 12-14). The first prophecy of the book’s latter half focuses on the coming of God the King in judgment. The opening verses (9:1-8) portray God as an avenging warrior who comes to take possession of His land by destroying all the pagan enemies who lie in His path. Chapter one verse one tells us that the book of Zechariah was written in the eigth month, in the second year of Darius which compares to the date when the book of Haggai was also written. This was October-November 520bc. So some interpret this “avenging warrior” as being fulfilled by the picture of a northern invasion describing Alexander the Great’s conquest of Palestine in 333 bc. That may be, but its greater meaning concerns God Himself coming to avenge His people. We see this ultimately fulfilled when Jesus Christ made the triumphal entry into Jerusalem (Matt.21:5; John 12:15).

The final oracle the prophet gives us in chapters 12-14 resolves around two scenes. The final siege of Jerusalem, and the Messiah’s return to defeat Israel’s enemies and establish His kingdom. This will include God’s judgment on the nations, climaxing with the salvation of Jerusalem and the final celebration.

I thank you both once again for the replies-Pilgrim, in the article you provided, I quickly noticed the author made a distinction concerning #6, the type I was looking for, I guess. Something within has been so desperately trying to grasp this concept of God's relationship with His ancient flock while holding onto the Christian heart itself.

I will continue to lean on God and His precious souls He has in place down here to get through this-one of the real truths I've learned during this is that He Himself provides the answers-the way the mind can suddenly align some of these things goes well beyond the human ability. Once you understand how this works, that itself becomes a direct proof that everything about this is real, and that it's all in His hands.

Again, I thank you all so very much.