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#39818 Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:32 AM
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'One of the Pharisees invited Jesus to have dinner with him, so he went to the Pharisee's house and reclined at the table. When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.

When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is — that she is a sinner."

Jesus answered him, "Simon, I have something to tell you."

"Tell me, teacher," he said.

"Two men owed money to a certain money-lender. One owed him five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. Neither of them had the money to pay him back, so he cancelled the debts of both. Now which of them will love him more?"

Simon replied, "I suppose the one who had the bigger debt cancelled."

"You have judged correctly," Jesus said. Then he turned towards the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet. You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven — because she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little."

Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven." The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?" Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."' Lk 7:36-50 NIV ed.

What is the relationship between faith and love? Could it be true to say that, in a way, justification is by love?

xyz #39819 Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:15 PM
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xyz said:


What is the relationship between faith and love? Could it be true to say that, in a way, justification is by love?

Biblical love could be considered a result of faith (which is a result of grace)

Being as love is a result of faith which, is a result of grace, I would have to say Justification is all of grace

Solo Grati
Sofa Fide

If i have misunderstood your question please forgive me and explain further

The Monergist #39820 Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:52 PM
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The Monergist said:
[quote]xyz said:
What is the relationship between faith and love? Could it be true to say that, in a way, justification is by love?
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Biblical love could be considered a result of faith
Indeed. Could it be called a necessary result?

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(which is a result of grace)
Of course.

xyz #39821 Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:11 AM
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A necessary result I belive so, Our Lord has promised a crown of life to "those who love him" James 1:12

He has commanded us to love in to many places to list, (keeping in mind we have been told not to love certian things sin, the world, ect, but I trust this is not the matter at hand) I mean the thought of a nonliving Christian dosn't compute in my mind, sounds like an oxymoron to me

But necessary for salvation, well, I am The Monergist <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The Monergist #39822 Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:19 AM
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The Monergist said:
Biblical love could be considered a result of faith (which is a result of grace)

Being as love is a result of faith which, is a result of grace, I would have to say Justification is all of grace.

Solo Grati
Sofa Fide
Monergist,

Amen to "all of grace"! {Sola Gratia & Sola Fide} [Linked Image]

We can also say that faith precedes from love in regeneration. For, in regeneration our disposition is radically changed from one that is predisposed to hating God and all that is good and loving self and all that is evil to one that loves God and all that is holy and good. It is when our eyes are opened, our minds given an understanding of our sinful hopeless condition and how lovely Christ is along with the sufficiency of His substitutionary sacrifice that we are drawn to Him and embrace Him by faith. Yet, it cannot be said that we are justified by love. It is simply one of the "means" by which we are drawn to Christ and then believe upon Him unto justification. Of course, there is no need to speculate on this matter since Paul makes it totally clear that justification is by faith alone - and not of works . . . !!!

In His grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Pilgrim #39823 Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:19 PM
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Pilgrim said:
it cannot be said that we are justified by love. It is simply one of the "means" by which we are drawn to Christ
As John wrote, it is Christ's love that draws, not the saint's love. Because Christ loved the saint, the saint loves in return. Jesus said that love is a reaction to one's forgiven sins, and forgiveness indicates justification, so it is quite reasonable to say that one is justified by love. This in no way replaces the tenet of faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross as means of legal justification. Neither is it to say that responding love is meritorious; it a what can only be expected from anyone saved from sins and their consequences.

xyz #39824 Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:38 PM
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xyz said:
Jesus said that love is a reaction to one's forgiven sins, and forgiveness indicates justification, so it is quite reasonable to say that one is justified by love.
<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/nope.gif" alt="" /> It is NOT "quite reasonable to say . . ." for it contradicts the biblical teaching of the nature of justification; that pronouncement by God upon a sinner that Christ's righteousness has been imputed to him through faith, that appointed means by which one is united to Christ.

As I wrote, and you would do well to quote me accurately in this matter, the sinner at regeneration has a new disposition which is totally opposite of that which was previously owned, i.e., one of hatred toward God and an adamant aversion to all that his holy and good. One is given to love God and especially the Lord Christ by which he is drawn to Christ and thus exercises faith in Him unto justification.

On the other side of the coin, it is true that "we love because He first loved us". But Christ's love for His sheep likewise does not justify. Christ's love for the elect is eternal yet until the sinner believes upon Him, the sinner is not justified. The Spirit must apply the benefits of Christ's atonement to the sinner from which the sinner believes upon Christ (aka: faith) and which then results in justification. It is by grace through faith that one is justified. Nothing else contributes to one's justification. As it has been consistently held against all other teachings, SOLA FIDE!

In His grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Pilgrim #39825 Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:56 AM
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Pilgrim said:
it contradicts the biblical teaching of the nature of justification; that pronouncement by God upon a sinner that Christ's righteousness has been imputed to him through faith, that appointed means by which one is united to Christ.
This in no way replaces the tenet of faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross as means of legal justification.

xyz #39826 Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:45 AM
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I am apparently confused,

I cannot find any link between justification and love. I mean salvation and therefore, justification is "by grace through faith" we all know that, so justification must proceed love. In light of that I can't see how we could say that in any way that we are justified by love.

this may just be a fundamental difference of opinion, I see it this way,

The Holy Spirit is the only efficient agent in regeneration, therefore the human will possesses NO INCLINATION to holiness until regenerated and thus cannot cooperate in ANYWAY to regeneration

and if we cannot cooperate in regeneration what could we possibly have to do with our justification--- nothing not our faith or our love or our belief or anything we exercise can have any influence on our justification

again I maybe just confused about your link between love and justification

I will add one of the reasons that Christ could say that the woman in Luke 7:47 had her sins forgiven, was because he could see the fruit, she loved him, this stemmed from the faith given her, which stemmed from the saving grace given her. Her love was just a manifestation of what God had already worked out in her.

The Monergist #39827 Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:56 AM
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The Monergist said:
Her love was just a manifestation of what God had already worked out in her.
Her love was what God worked in her.

xyz #39828 Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:19 AM
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xyz said:
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The Monergist said:
Her love was just a manifestation of what God had already worked out in her.
Her love was what God worked in her.


agreed, but do get my point

xyz #39829 Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:54 AM
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Something to think about, this woman was not regenerated, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, so was the love a result of the inner working or outer working of Christ?


Hisalone
Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. KJV
hisalone #39830 Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:34 PM
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hisalone said:
Something to think about, this woman was not regenerated, for the Holy Spirit was not yet given
If the unregenerate can show such love, should not the regenerate show it?

xyz #39831 Fri Jun 06, 2008 2:31 PM
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The question wasn't denying the regenerate's ability to love. It seemed the discussion was alluding to the regenerating work of the Spirit prior to her showing love. Since the propitiation was not yet made, that means she was not yet regenerated by the Spirit. My question was an addition to the first question, are people justified by love? If we look at the O.T. there are not a lot of instances of individuals saying they love the Lord, David and Solomon but no other individuals did I see doing a quick search, that said they love the Lord. I just find that interesting. I don't believe we can Love God if we don't know Him, that's impossible. To know Him takes a work of the Spirit to give us understanding. Those in the O.T. and the time of Christ, were witnesses of who God was through the temple worship and the person of Christ. So they could love Him where today we can only love Him by the Spirit's indwelling. They had to believe or in other words exercise faith in order to be able to love Him because you can't love something you don't think exists. My question was only for the purpose of challenging some thought.


Hisalone
Matt. 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. KJV
hisalone #39832 Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:25 PM
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hisalone said:
are people justified by love? If we look at the O.T. there are not a lot of instances of individuals saying they love the Lord
Saying that one loves the Lord is as easy as can be. What counts is actions, and there are many OT figures whose actions proved their love.

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you can't love something you don't think exists.

The demons know God exists, and know all that we do, but do not love Him.

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My question was only for the purpose of challenging some thought.
It could be thought to be an attempt to derail, though. It's not for you to do as you have done, anyway.

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