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#41576
Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:51 AM
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I apologize in advance if this should be directed in the theology forum, but being that it pertains to the Charismatic/Pentecostal doctrine I thought it would be fitting in this forum.
Can anyone tell me what passage of scripture is used as the basis for the doctrine that teaches a person can lose his salvation? I don't ever remember that being pointed out during my upbringing in the AG church. I have since "escaped" and have found truth within the word, but I still have family and even a cousin of my wife who is a Youth Pastor in the AG church. He was talking about the difference in salvation beliefs between the AG & Baptists. I didn't want to get into an argument with him, so I kept my mouth shut. But I would be interested to know what scripture they are twisting... hopefully one of you can help.
thanks
Last edited by Bryan Wayne; Tue Feb 17, 2009 9:52 AM.
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There is no one passage of Scripture that Arminians/semi-Pelagians use to support their error. But to get you started, here are a few items: In Robert Harbach's article, Calvinism...the Truth (Arminianism the Lie), under the heading "PERSEVERANCE OF SAINTS" he writes: 7. ARMINIANISM wrests Scripture to teach that it is possible for the true believer to fall from the grace of salvation (Gal.5:4); and that each believer is provided with sufficient ability to persevere and preserve himself, if only he will: (“And ye will not come to Me, that ye might have life,” Jh. 5:40). If all depends on the choice of man’s will, whether he will persevere or not. (This denies everything thus far so irrefutably declared!) The error continues: not only is it possible that believers fatally and finally fall, sin unto death, and be eternally lost, but indeed, may often fall, be often recovered, yet in the end be lost to God. “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God” (Heb. 3:11). There is, then, no such thing in this life as certainty of eternal security, nor assurance of perseverance: “Have not I chosen you twelve and one of you is a devil ? . . . And began every one of them to say unto Him, Is it I, Lord?” (Jh. 6:70; Matt. 26:22). You can read much more here: Perseverance of the Saints, by Loraine Boettner. Another important article which exposes a popular error in regard to the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints is this review article by Iain Murray, Will the Unholy be Saved?. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/enjoy.gif)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/pilgrim/pil_sig2.gif) simul iustus et peccator![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/pencil.gif)
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Being new here myself I'm somewhat hesitant to advise but I will offer this one thing.1John5:11,12(Assurance of Salvation) were the first two verses I memorized after becoming a christian.For more than thirty years I've retained them and more than once they have been used to combat the enemy in times of attack.
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Quote: I apologize in advance if this should be directed in the theology forum, but being that it pertains to the Charismatic/Pentecostal doctrine I thought it would be fitting in this forum.
I'm not sure a denial of the final perseverance of the saints IS entirely the province of charismatic/pentecostals!
I for one place the importance of reformed teaching above charismatic persuasion and find much more in common and easier fellowship with reformed cessationists than arminian charismatics.
Nick Mudge
Rom 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
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ExCharisma
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I think they are misapplying Hebrews 6:4-6 which says: For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and having tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God, and put Him to open shame (Hebrews 6:4-6, NASB). I believe this passage may be parallel to Jesus' words in Matthew 12:31ff describing the unpardonable sin. These unbelievers had not only witnessed but experienced the power of God in their very midst, seeing (but not seeing; hearing but not heeding) the Scriptures they knew by heart fulfilled before their very eyes, having met God Himself in the person of Jesus Christ - yet still fell short of saving repentance. There is no other way for anyone to be saved except by saving faith, granted by God Himself to His elect.
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I'm not sure a denial of the final perseverance of the saints IS entirely the province of charismatic/pentecostals! That's interesting, considering I was raised in pentecostal churches all my life and they all preach the same thing about salvation. Other churches outside the charismatic/pentecostal circle may subscribe to the same theology (though I'm not familiar with them), but I've never known a pentecostal church to teach (if they teach at all) this issue any differently.
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Being new here myself I'm somewhat hesitant to advise but I will offer this one thing.1John5:11,12(Assurance of Salvation) were the first two verses I memorized after becoming a christian.For more than thirty years I've retained them and more than once they have been used to combat the enemy in times of attack. Thank you for that. I memorized those 2 verses several months ago shortly after I realized how wretchedly lost I was. The whole book of 1John was an extremely useful tool to test and be sure that you are in the faith.
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Hi Big B,
You will usually find (I know I have) that the world is a bigger place than my own experience leads me to think and that also is true of the wider church.
In the UK aside of the WoF proponents some streams of charismatic churches are arminian but there are at least two, one with around 400 churches in the network are profoundly reformed.
Nick Mudge
Rom 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
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Another passage that points to the potential for loss of salvation is in 1 Cor 10. The overwhelming emphasis of the Nt is the security of the believer but these more difficult passages should be a reminder against complacency and ensuring that we run the race to the end.
Nick Mudge
Rom 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
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