The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Purpose of Doctrinal Statements/ConfessionsofFaith

I have recently started talking with a young colleague of mine about the church he attends - he described it as non-denominational. I asked if the Church had a doctrinal statement- to which he said he would have to check. So the next week he got back to me and said he asked the pastor (which happens to be his older brother) if they had a doctrinal statement. The brother/Pastor replied- "yes we do- it's the Bible."

While on the surface, that answer might sound very commendable (and convenient)I know that many drastically differing denominations can claim the Bible as their basis, so the answer that their only doctrinal statement is the bible seems problematic (and not particularly helpful for someone a bit interested in the Church if I could only figure out what they believe in all the nitty-gritty stuff that I would find in a doctrinal statment).

Can anyone extrapolate on the purpose of Doctrinal Statements or Confessions of Faith - in particular why it should be necessary for a Church to have some kind of "what we believe" document other than simply saying "we believe the Bible"?

I am hopefully going to email this friend of mine explaining why I asked for a doctrinal statement but I'm having a hard time pinpointing what exactly I should say....

~Tracylight

Good question, Tracylight. My two bits.

First, I bet I can guess what they are by their answer....

Are they Jehovah's Witnesses? Mormons? Benny Hinn-ites? Jim Jones reborn? Bet they're Episcopal....maybe neo-Arians. How can we possibly tell from that answer?

Tell him you told somebody that was their confession and the person couldn't tell if they were a cult, charismatic extremists, or just wacko liberal, all of whom have as their creed "the Bible." Couldn't tell if I would go to their church or call them brethren or not.

In our history we Christians have suffered the continual onslaught of people who said they were just preaching "the Bible". That was the claim of Arius, who denied that Jesus was fully God. It created such a conundrum that Christians had to get together and ask themselves, "Well? What do we believe?" It was no longer sufficient to claim "the Bible" in that debate because both sides, so far apart, were both doing that.

Of course they believe "the Bible", good for them, but that doesn't help us know them. "What," is your question "do you believe about the Bible?".

So the Christians got together. There they articulated in clear, no-nonsense, uniform terms what a Christian believes about Jesus, and it cut off the Arian heresy. Their words formed the Nicene Creed.

It was so effective in keeping Christianity pure, and so rallied the faithful in a hopeful unity that whenever great heresies sprung up again with some new angle, some new oblique attack saying "But it's just the Bible!" Christians responded with an exegesis on whatever point the heretics cared to raise. That's all...its's just a clarification about what we believe about the Bible, pointed against attackers. It worked, and it's still working.

Creeds are important in keeping the Church pure, in keeping a Christian identifiable from the world, and even to identify our beliefs within our community. It gives us all a place to go in the face of heretical attacks....it's all the hard work that really smart Christians have done in a nutshell. It's a way of distinguishing us from the liar's light.

Where creeds are tools in defending the faith, doctrinal statements are tools in articulating for those outside of ourselves what we believe. It is no offence to God for you to hear that I am for this creed or that my church adheres to this doctrinal statement or that. What matters is that the confession is Biblical. For them to have a statement would be beneficial for you, for others. That's the purpose. They already know they believe "the Bible"...how does that help you?

Only in the case of churches where tradition trumps Scripture can a creed or confession become a stumbling block.

When we're alone, or when we're communing with like-minded faithful, then we may simply say we are, after all, just Christians just reading the Bible, for there we stand before God alone.

-Barry

Hi Tracy... long time no see.

First, here's a great quote on this subject:

"A church without a confession of faith may well advertise that it is prepared to be a harbour of every kind of damning heresy and to be the soil for any who are given to growing the crop of novelty. A church without a confession of faith has the theological and ecclesiastical equivalent of AIDS, with no immunity against the infectious winds of false doctrine." - Dr. Robert Paul Martin

Next, the following might give you some ammunition to deal with this person:

- Is Doctrine Necessary?
- Absolute Necessity of Sound Doctrine
- In Defense of Creedalism (especially good)

The Apostle Paul refers to "faithful sayings, worthy of acceptance" even in the first century (1st Tim 1:15, 4:9, 2 Tim 2:11, Titus 3:8). These in fact were the earliest creeds! Simple summary statements of the Christian faith.

Back when we were having ecumenical meetings of local Christian clergy at each others' churches in my little town, on one occasion when they met in our fellowship hall one Friday morning I remember well, one of the ministers was bragging about the "liberty" he and his church enjoyed as a "non-denominational" church. He was running down denominations as "divisive, sectarian, narrow-minded," etc.

It made me angry, I admit, even though I'm not a minister. I was just serving the donuts. But I couldn't stop myself, having just recently wrestled with and settled this issue for myself.

"Brother Joe here is a Lutheran (LCMS). I can call him 'brother' because I know what Lutherans believe. Jim here is a Presbyterian. I can call him 'brother' too because I know what Presbyterians believe. But you? I haven't got a clue what you believe. For all I know you could be a Deist, a cult leader, or who knows what. And you've got the gall to sit here in my fellowship hall eating my donuts and enjoying the hospitality of my Baptist church while railing against denominations and bragging that you can't even tell us what you believe and who you are accountable to other than God? Get out of my fellowship hall, you pea-wit!"

My pastor and a few others stood to their feet and applauded! I thought they would have apologized for my rudeness and told me to go home... but instead they stood along side me and dismissed the pea-wit. It sure surprised the heck out of me, since these meetings were supposed to be an attempt at "unity."

Denominations serve a vital purpose, and in areas where they agree, they can enjoy sweet fellowship and achieve great things together in cooperative efforts in a community. Most of the churches in our little confab even supported the same missionaries!

But the Confessing denominations - those which are bound to a Confession or Creed or Statement of Faith - offer a sense of security to members because they must adhere to that confession and are held accountable to it. So-called "Independent" churches offer no such stability, no accountability, and no defense against heresy.

-R

Thank you- all three of you, Pilgrim, Barry, and Robin for some GREAT responses! Pilgrim, I have read the articles you linked to- and I love the quote! Between the three of you, I now have some great "ammunition" for what to say.

A side note- this friend did mention that his Church says the apostles creed every Sunday - as good as that creed may be, unless I'm mistaken, I think Catholics, Lutherans, Methodists, Episcopalians and I'm sure many other denominations use the apostles creed- so again, it doesn't give a church much distinction as to what they really believe. Right?

When I ask what a Church believes- I'm looking for something more meaty- like the westminster confession of faith...

Sorry, but I'm

You seem to be making a distinction between "Confessing" denominations and "independent" denominations ascribing to the former stability, accountability and a defense against heresy whereas the former doesn't have these things. However, historically there have been several "independent" denominations which have been and continue to be confessional. Such denominations are Congregationalists [Savoy Declaration 1658) and Reformed/Calvinistic Baptists [London Baptist Confession 1689, New Hampshire Confession 1833, and others).

Lastly, practically speaking, confessional churches have had their fair share, if not more so, of apostasy due to their lack of enforcing conscriptionalism among its clergy and administering discipline when required. So, although there are positive aspects to both types of government; Presbyterian/Continental vs. Independent, they both have their weaknesses too.

Yes, the "Apostles' Creed" is a very basic, fundamental creed which is recognized across most "Christian" denominations and groups. If one insists that it is all that is necessary to 'define' who they are, then they are adhering to what I like to term, "a lowest common denominator theology". It is quite popular today to confess one's "creed" as simply, "No creed but Christ. No doctrine but life."

The irony of this type of mentality, which is all too easy to expose as hypocritical, is that if you ask such an individual what he/she believes about Jesus, then they must respond with their personal "credo (creed)" [what I believe about xxxx). Their church's "creed" may be unwritten, but it is nonetheless held to and if you don't subscribe to this unwritten creed, you can be shunned or even expelled.

And lastly, IF you do not have a copy of Refcon 3 you should! You can read about it and grab yourself a copy right from The Highway for absolutely by clicking HERE.

For several years I have been part of an independent fundamental baptist Church - by their government they are independent, but they still have a doctrinal statement, and it's clear what they believe - the Church my friend attends seems to have nothing- they don't even have a website that says anything about what they believe!

Tracy

I am going to throw another log on the fire (so to speak).

About 5 years ago when we moved to the city we now live in. We did a little Church shopping. During that time, when we went to these Churches, we asked to speak with the pastor. During one of those interviews we asked the pastor if they had a statement of faith.
He pulled out a pamphlet and we took it home to read. My wife and I discussed what the pamphlet said and it was it was clear from our perspective that it was in keeping with our beliefs.
However, over the next few weeks, we began noticing things that were not in keeping with their statement of faith.
Among those things was their support of the Crystal Cathedral.
As soon as I could I went to the pastor with my concerns and to make a long story short he told me in no uncertain terms that my concerns have no merit.
He said not only did the Crystal Cathedral's beliefs line up with their statement of faith, but my other concerns were based on misunderstanding.
Needless to say that that was the last time we attended that Church.
More recently we needed to leave a Church because some emergent thought was rearing it's ugly head.
Fortunately, a new pastor moved to town to pastor a local Baptist Church and we hit it off right away.
He is very Reformed and biblically centered in how he does ministry. So far I would say that this is the best Church that I have ever been to.

I mention all this not because I don't believe that a Church needs to have a statement of faith; because I think that is important. However, many Churches today in reality are not in keeping with their statement of faith, despite what they claim.

Tom

Seems those sorry cases couldn't stick by anything because the Crystal Cathedral declared bankruptcy today.

Hi Pilgrim,

I just wanted to say that I loved this quote so much that I was prompted to do some sleuthing, and found the full article from which it came from here:
http://www.reformedbaptistmn.org/confessions.html

There's some good stuff in there! I sent off a letter to my friend, and I see him every Monday (a choir rehearsal...) so I will keep the thread updated if there's any dramatic news regarding the topic.

Thanks again all for your thoughts!

~Tracy

Brother you don't know how much I enjoyed reading that little slice of your biography. Amen may your tribe increase!

Robin

Thank you for sharing that.

Tom