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Robin
Lake Park, Georgia USA
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Jan 12th, 2026
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Tom,
It's pretty weak to suggest that sarcasm would be rejected on the grounds that we don't see it as part of his "regular" personality. Firstly, Peter doesn't write near as much as Paul does, just these two books (that we know of, I think). Yet in one of two of them we see this sarcastic remark. Paul does not use sarcasm in half of his books as Peter does. If we go by odds, we would see Peter doing it far more often than Paul already.
Secondly, Peter was a vivacious personality anyway and from any regular observation of humankind just about anybody is prone to a sarcastic remark now and then, including hotter headed types. I use sarcasm extremely rarely, but when I do it would be a mistake for the one to whom I'm being sarcastic to presume they have figured out something "regular" about my personality.
It doesn't take any deep psychological "trait to warrant the use of sarcasm....a bit of wit and an opportunity is all.
Barry
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Needs to get a Life
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Needs to get a Life
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I came across an article written by Simon Escobedo III from James White's Alpha & Omega Ministries that I think is quite helpful. One of the things he states is: A Right Perspective
Let us now focus specifically on 2 Peter 2:1 and the frequently asked questions concerning it. To do so I will use as a springboard a question that was posed by a correspondent I had some time ago. Paraphrasing the writer’s (I will refer to him as “Bill”) question he asked:
I was wondering how Mr. White would interpret 2 Peter 2:1 which seems to me to very clearly teach that these ‘false teachers,’ who are destined for condemnation (hell), because of the destructive heresies they are propounding, can be designated as ones whom the Lord bought? How does the Reformed position of limited atonement harmonize with a text such as this one? How are they going to end up in hell if Jesus died to purchase (bought) them?
In response I have to inquire whether the correspondent is suggesting that it is Peter's purpose or intention to discuss the nature and the extent of the atonement in this passage. It goes without saying that before addressing any passage that might be understood as providing scope or extent (although as I hope to later demonstrate, Peter is not even addressing the atonement in this passage), we must have a clear understanding of the nature of Christ’s perfect work. Before one can ask, “for whom did Christ die?” one must ask the question, “what did Christ accomplish in His death?”5 To address the extent of the atonement before you have addressed the nature of the atonement is to put the cart before the horse. Also: What is it Saying?
It has been demonstrated that the term “Master” (despotes) refers to an owner in a master- slave relationship. The meaning here is not of Christ as Savior or Mediator (despotes is never used as a redemptive title), but to Christ (or the Father) as Sovereign. It has also been demonstrated that the term “bought” (agorazo) in the New Testament is most frequently used in non-redemptive contexts. When used redemptively there are specific pointers that are conspicuously absent in 2 Peter 2:1 (such as the purchase price, believers as the lone object, or the presence of other mediatorial or redemptive features). Since this is so, it of necessity eliminates the assumed non-Reformed interpretation, at the very least, as the only viable interpretation of 2 Peter 2:1. In point of fact, not only is the non-redemptive sense equally viable, but there is far more to commend this sense than the redemptive sense, for which the general redemptionist argues. This does not mean, of course, that the Reformed view becomes the view by default; rather, that the Reformed view cannot be simply dismissed as a viable and exegetically sound interpretation. To read the whole article go here .
Last edited by Tom; Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:33 PM.
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Tom, Thanks to the link to the entire article. I gave it a good read through and I saw many of the same arguments I have used here in our discussion. It was quite cogent and seemed to honor the principle of the "Analogy of Faith" (comparing Scripture with Scripture) as well as it being consistent with the biblical doctrines of sovereign grace. 
![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/pilgrim/pil_sig2.gif) simul iustus et peccator![[Linked Image]](http://www.the-highway.com/Smileys/pencil.gif)
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Needs to get a Life
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Pilgrim Though I am not totally comfortable with any of the arguments I have heard so far, I think I can at least buy into what this article says. I thought I would ask you something just to clarify. When you said: "Analogy of Faith" (comparing Scripture with Scripture) I usually read "Analogy of Scripture" as meaning comparing Scripture with Scripture. Are these terms used interchangeably? Tom
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simul iustus et peccator
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Hi all,
I am on my way home tomorrow (1250km) and hope to again join the discussion around Sunday.
Johan
Last edited by Johan; Thu Jan 06, 2011 12:03 PM.
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Hi all,
I am on my way home tomorrow (1250km) and hope to again join the discussion around Sunday.
Johan May the Lord grant you traveling mercies, brother. I am sure you are looking forward to being home. ![[Linked Image]](http://the-highway.com/Smileys/yahoo.gif)
simul iustus et peccator
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I have to apologize that I have not yet been able to contribute to this thread as promised. Now that I am back at work there are a lot of new things that came my way. A colleague of us died of cancer in December and I have to take over some of his duties and even more may come my way. My time is thus very limited at the moment.
Also, I am in the process of taking up the matter of our pastor's view on Scripture as he formulated it last year in a sermon and on which I asked your opinion on this forum. That requires some careful writing which takes time.
Till later
Johan
Last edited by Johan; Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:57 AM.
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The obedient and faithful sufferings of Jesus Christ are rewarded by the Father by placing all things into the hands of the Son. The Son is given all power in heaven and earth. He is given to inheret all.(Heb 1:2) The Father says to the Son, "Sit at My right, till I should be placing Thine enemies for a footstool for Thy feet."(Heb 1:13) All becomes subject to to Son(1Cor 15:28). In view of the Sons obedience unto death, even the death of the cross, the Father exalts the Son and eventually every knee will bow and every tongue will confess Him to be their sovereign Lord to the glory of God the Father.(Phil 2:8-11)
Jesus Christ bought all of creation with His blood(his obedient sufferings). It is all given to Him by His Father as His reward.
All judgment has been given to the Son so that all should honor Him.(John 5:22) All of the false gods that men worship will be shown to be worthless by judgment. All of man's pride will be humbled in judgment until every tongue and every knee honors the Son. Every knee will bow and every tongue will praise God(Rom 14:11)
In thise sense, Jesus Christ bought everything. Consider the example of Joseph. His obedient sufferings as a slave and then in prison, is the foundation of his exaltation by Pharoah to Pharoah's right hand. Joseph then uses the power and authority given to him to save all of Egypt from famine/death and to buy all of Egypt for Pharoah. In a similar way, the humility, faithfulness, obedience, sinlessness--His worthiness--is demonstrated in His life and death and He is then rewarded by the Father with everything. He then uses the power and authority given to Him to save, redeem, and judge--setting right all that is wrong.
A man cannot get anything unless it is given him by heaven. God gives to all life, and breath and all.
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Hi Charlemagne,
re your comment "Jesus Christ bought all of creation with His blood(his obedient sufferings). It is all given to Him by His Father as His reward. "
How would you reconcile that notion to a seeming distinction Christ draws in John 17:9:
"I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours"
And if all creation was already bought by Christ by his blood, then what efficacy is left of a seemingly empty (given your comment) Ephesians 2:13?:
"But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ."
thx
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