The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum World Wide Apostasy

Hello All,

In another thread recently Pilgrim brought up the point of the slow Apostasy happening in the Church today.

I just wanted to comment on that.

I won't go into a long post here, but I currently belong to a totally apostate assembly in the PCUSA. I continue to go there because of my wife, but there is literally nothing there for myself.

The last couple of years, I decided that I personally had to go and find another congregation and just go to a separate Church. During this time, I had a very "ecumenical" spirit. I had left the PCA and the Reformed Faith, I basically personally tried all the "flavors." I went and became a Catholic Catechumen, but dropped out in the middle of it. ( side note - the Catholic parish that I did this in was a "Traditional Catholic Church" - meaning they were pretty much in every way "pre Vat 2" in other words, they were staunch traditionalists, no playing around, Latin Mass only, mass everyday etc etc. This Church out of all the Churches I went to, at least, even in it's RC error; were the most Sanctified ) I then went to the High Anglican Church, which was probably the second most sanctified Church along with the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church that I attended for a couple of months. I also tried the Lutheran Missouri Synod and the Wisconsin and a few other Churches as well.

Anyway I say all of this to just say that I did all this because I was searching for Truth. But during it all, I was in the Word daily. I listen to my KJV on my ipod everyday and I also read my Bible everyday. Which slowly brought me back the the Reformed perspectives. Which I left for awhile because of my experience in the PCA.

What I personally discovered was that in all these local assemblies in my surrounding area, they all had a focus on Justification by works in some way, shape or form. I then realized just how deeply our flesh desires to rely on it's own goodness and or righteousness.

For myself I keep going back to the example of the Pharisee and the Publican. I find myself applying this more and more in my discernment process and it really helps to understand whether or not a person's faith is driven by works or by faith alone.

Anyway, in the Mainstream Evangelical Church; the gospel is that good people go to heaven and it is slowly but steadily moving toward a total Universalist position.

I have since stopped my searching and have just remained at the PCUSA church with my wife; it makes her happy to have me there, so I just go there with her. But now that the PCUSA has decided to ordain Gay's; it's even harder for me to be there.

But this really isn't about my situation, I'm just using it as an example that, it really is getting pretty bad in my area.

Dave

I would just like to add a couple of other comments that I had thought of. I wanted to amplify the seriousness of the situation. Everywhere that I've been in my local area I've witnessed an all out assault on classic reformed orthodoxy. I've been in more dialogs then I can count and no one agree's with the classic historic orthodox faith anymore. When I mention Van Tillian apologetics, WCF, inerrancy of Scripture, when I talk about the Atoning sacrifice of our Lord, etc etc... when I share the Gospel.... I continually meet strong resistance.

I'm quickly labeled a "fundamentalist." The word "fundamentalist" now days, is no longer used for referring to an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist. It is used to refer to anyone who believes that Christ is the way the truth and the life and that no one comes to the Father accept by Him. - John 14:6.

In fact the only assemblies in my local area that really do preach that with power and authority ARE the Independent Fundamentalist Baptists. It's just too bad that they believe that a true believer can lose their salvation..... again; faith and works.

Anyway; I know there is a good strong Reformed Orthodox movement.... it just doesn't exist in my area. But as for the rest of the Church.... I fully expect it to be pretty Universalist here in the next couple of decades; which is the logical end of the false gospel of "good people go to heaven."

This includes most of the Catholic Church as well, as they now ( post Vat 2 ) also believe in the same gospel, all accept for the Traditionalist's; which is a very small minority.

When I refer to the "good Buddhist monk in his mountain temple" example; almost everyone's ultimate answer is "yes I believe that a person like that will most likely be saved."

Every funeral that I've been too in the last few years rests on the recently deceased certainly being up in heaven because they were a good person.

Anyway.... again, just trying to stress the serious reality we find ourselves in these days.

Dave

Dave,

I sense the difficulty you are experiencing. I agree with your assessment of the spiritual condition of the PSUSA, but I also firmly agree that a couple should worship at the same local church. I have know Christian couples that worship in separate churches for family reasons or due to loyalty to a certain denomination they attended before they were married, and it always seemed very strange to me.

It sounds like you are resigned to saying at the PCUSA church, which I feel is a good decision for the sake of your marriage, not knowing all the details. Pray to find a like-minded couple in the church and perhaps you could start a home Bible study with them, and you may find other conservatives come out from hiding. But perhaps God is calling you to take the first step of faith. You will not be fed by the sermons if in fact your pastor is a liberal. And the Sunday school curriculum is most certainly substandard. But is there a believing elder or other leader whom you could befriend and find fellowship with? Or meet with one morning a week just to pray with? That would give you the support and encouragement you need. Being a conservative in a liberal congregation is a discouraging situation. Pray for the courage to maintain your convictions and find other like-minded members. God has allowed you to discover and embrace the doctrines of grace and the Reformed tradition. There are certainly other members, even in the PCUSA, who long for something more than the social gospel or whatever it is they are hearing from the pulpit.

Other members of The Highway will most likely disagree with me and encourage you to come out from among them and be separate, even if your wife refuses to join you. And maybe they are right. None of us here knows your situation entirely. But if you are going to stay in a liberal church, don't try to survive alone. Seek out other Christians to pray and study with. If not in your local church, perhaps from one of the other churches in your area that you have visited.

May our Lord give you strength, wisdom and guidance for this challenging journey that you're on.