The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Question on WCF chapter 3

I've been studying the WCF recently. In chapter III, "Of God's Eternal Decree", it reads


The WCF distinguishes the way in which the elect and the reprobate are "set apart" by using the word "predestinated" for the elect and "foreordained" for the reprobate. My question is what is difference between the two words and why not just say some were predestinated for life and some were predestinated for death? Is the process of predestining different in some way from the process of foreordaining?

Thanks,
John

Quick answer . . . Predestination is generally that aspect of God's decree which is salvific in nature, e.g., election to salvation in Christ. Foreordination is the general term used to designate and include ALL things that God has decreed.

There is definitely a difference between God's election and reprobation of mankind. One is "positive" and the other "negative".

Providentially, the new article just posted, Calvin on the Sovereignty of God covers this topic quite nicely.

See also, R.C. Sproul's article, Double Predestination.

And, The Double Predestination to Holiness and Sin, by W.G.T. Shedd.

In His Grace,

Thanks for the links. I haven't had a chance to read them all, but the Sproul article is very informative.


So if I am understanding this correctly, the Reformed view of predestination does not apply to the reprobate because that would imply that God is actively working to produce sin in their lives. The WCF therefore uses "foreordained" to indicate that their reprobation has been eternally decreed by God and is certain, but it is the result of God witholding His grace from them and allowing them to follow after their own sinful desires. Is this the basic idea, or am I still missing the boat?

John

John,

That's basically it. The "language" can be rather confusing at times to be sure. But theologically, "foreordained" is used as a synonym for "decree"; what God has determined to be without qualification, i.e., all things. Predestination does consider the end of all men; election to salvation and reprobation. HOW God works with, in, and through these two groups is often referred to, as you read in Sproul's article, as "positive" and "negative". Positive in that God actually changes the nature of the elect to make them able and willing to be joined with Christ and thus ultimately saved. Negatively, in that God does not change the nature of the individual but rather simply uses the wickedness that already exists to serve His own purpose and justly condemns them to eternal punishment.

Because of this difference, many are reluctant to use the word "predestination" to refer to the reprobate as it many times is thought to mean that God forces men to sin, etc.. you know, the old "puppet, robot" strawman? Thus, you will read other words used, e.g., foreordained, permitted, etc. As long as you understand that God foreordained all things, predestinated some to salvation and some to damnation, and that God actually intervenes to change the elect but doesn't do so in the reprobate, you will be fine. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,

Thanks Pilgrim for your well thought through answers. Two questions.
1. If I understand you correctly when you say that God's decree of reprobation is negative and not positive, doesn't this make the decree itself to be conditioned or dependent on the sinfulness of man rather than on what God himself has already determined in eternity past?

2. If God has decreed all things that come to pass, including the sinful actions of men, can we therefore say that God CAUSES men to sin or ALLOWS them to sin? Which is which?

Negative vs. Positive: Yes, being one who holds to Infralapsarianism, I believe that the decree of reprobation is "negative". What this means is that God did not decree to create a certain number of humans as morally/spiritually "neutral" and then determine to make them sinful. The decree to save a certain portion of the human race was subsequent to decree the Fall, i.e., God predestinated the salvation of those whom He elected to be saved in Christ as those already fallen. To accomplish their salvation, their predestination was "positive", i.e., God has to change the nature of the individual; make them morally/spiritually alive; aka: regeneration. Contrariwise, in regard to the reprobate, God simply leaves them in their fallen state. But their reprobation is no less foreordained and thus certain than the foreordination of the elect to salvation.

The way your question is phrased makes it a little difficult to answer.

a. God never "CAUSES men to sin", i.e., God does not, indeed cannot, force the will of any individual to do that which they choose not to do. ALL the acts of men are theirs alone. Man always chooses that which is most desirable/important to him at any given time under any and all circumstances.

b. Since all men are sinful by nature and only do that which is evil (cf. Gen 6:5; 8:21; Rom 3; et al), it is totally unnecessary that God "CAUSE" anyone to sin, for all men sin most freely and most willingly. The fact that anyone does anything relatively good is due to God restraining the sinful nature of the individual (cf. Gen 20:1-7).

c. Again, the sinful acts of men are done freely and willingly but it is wrong to suggest that God simply "allows" men to commit their sinful acts. ALL THINGS are eternally foreordained by God and serve to exalt His glory, holiness, love, justice, etc. Without question the clearest expression of this truth is found in the crucifixion of Christ:

These passages demonstrate the truth that God eternally determined and foreordained all the wicked acts of men involved in the crucifixion of the LORD Jesus Christ... AND, they did so freely and willingly of their own accord. No one was forced to do anything against their will. But they were not "left alone" to do whatever they pleased, i.e., it is untrue that God was not in total control for He had eternally determined all that should happen (Isa 46:9,10).

The bottom line here is that Scripture does not teach "Deism" which emphasizes God's "transcendence" to the point of denying God's "immanence", i.e., God isn't involved in the daily affairs of men. The position has been described as God made the world like a clock which He wound up and it simply runs on its own.