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#50369 Fri Jan 03, 2014 9:01 AM
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After the heart is regenerated is it perfect so that the sin we still commit comes from our flesh and not from our heart?

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

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Originally Posted by IBelievetheBible
After the heart is regenerated is it perfect so that the sin we still commit comes from our flesh and not from our heart?

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Up front, I would say no, the "heart" is not perfect after regeneration. And rather than give my reasons why I hold that position, perhaps to stimulate the discussion, I would ask the following questions:

1. What is the meaning of "heart" in the Ezekiel passage?
2. What actually occurs in regeneration?
3. What is the meaning(s) of flesh in Scripture? And which definition applies to your initial question?

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Pilgrim #50397 Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:33 PM
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Since no one has made an offering here , I submit the following :


1-I believe the meaning of "heart" in the Ezekiel passage would be the same as in Proverbs 3:5, referring to the mind or intellect.

2- Regeneration is the objective work of the Holy Spirit that brings man from a state of total depravity to a state of spiritual rebirth.In the order of salvation regeneration precedes faith.

3- The meaning of flesh in scripture normally refers to the "natural" man or unregenerate man.

Where are you , Tom?


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I guess you found me sojourner smile


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1-I believe the meaning of "heart" in the Ezekiel passage would be the same as in Proverbs 3:5, referring to the mind or intellect.

Agreed

Quote
2- Regeneration is the objective work of the Holy Spirit that brings man from a state of total depravity to a state of spiritual rebirth.In the order of salvation regeneration precedes faith.

Agreed

Quote
3- The meaning of flesh in scripture normally refers to the "natural" man or unregenerate man.
It can mean that in Scripture, but I think because we see the words "I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh." It can't be referring to the "natural" man. Rather I think it refers to a heart that is now able and willing to do what God requires to be justified.

This does not mean however, that a regenerate person will always act in a God honoring manner. However as we see in Gal.6:16-18 only the regenerate are able to walk in the Spirit and therefore not fulfill the lust of the flesh.

Tom




Last edited by Tom; Tue Jan 14, 2014 8:46 PM.
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Here's my 2 cents worth:

1. I do not find any warrant for interpreting the "heart" in this particular passage as specifically the "mind or intellect. (See the quick study below)

2. I agree that regeneration precedes faith and makes anything to do with salvation possible. But I do not see regeneration proper in v. 26, but rather I see it as being assumed in v. 25 which eludes to justification and vvs. 26, 27 eluding to sanctification, the changed life of one justified. Otherwise, you have justification in v. 25 preceding regeneration in v. 26. That view has been soundly refuted for centuries, albeit it is held by the majority of modern churches today.

Quote
Ezekiel 36:25-27 (ASV) And I will sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.

3. It is my view that the "heart" in v. 26 is referring to the whole man; mind, affections and will, which are inseparable elements of man. It isn't enough to simply know what is right, but one must also love that which is right and then do what is right (cf. Rom 2:13; Jam 1:22; 2:18-26; Matt 7:21; Lk 6:46). So, here is a short study on the word "heart" and how it is used in Scripture:

Quote
1. Heart and Personality:
As representing the man himself, it was considered to be the seat of the emotions and passions and appetites (Ge 19:4; Lev 20:12; Ps 104:15), and embraced likewise the intellectual and moral faculties - though these are necessarily ascribed to the "soul" as well. This distinction is not always observed.

2. Heart and Mind:
As the central organ in the body, forming a focus for its vital action, it has come to stand for the center of its moral, spiritual, intellectual life. "In particular the heart is the place in which the process of self-consciousness is carried out, in which the soul is at home with itself, and is conscious of all its doing and suffering as its own" (Oehler). Hence, it is that men of "courage" are called "men of the heart"; that the Lord is said to speak "in his heart" (Ge 8:21); that men "know in their own heart" (2Ch 26:2); that "no one considereth in his heart' (Isa 44:19 the King James Version). "Heart" in this connection is sometimes rendered "mind," as in 1Ch 14:8 ("of mine own mind," Vulgate (Jerome's Latin Bible, 390-405 A.D.) ex proprio corde, Septuagint ap' emautou); the foolish "is void of understanding," i.e. "heart" (Pr 6:32, where the Septuagint renders phrenon, Vulgate (Jerome's Latin Bible, 390-405 A.D.) cordis, Luther "der ist ein Narr"). God is represented as "searching the heart" and "trying the reins" (Jer 17:10 the King James Version). Thus, "heart" comes to stand for "conscience," for which there is no word in Hebrew, as in Job 27:6, "My heart shall not reproach me," or in Ps 34:16, "David's heart smote him"; compare Ps 37:2. From this it appears, in the words of Owen: "The heart in Scripture is variously used, sometimes for the mind and understanding, sometimes for the will, sometimes for the affections, sometimes for the conscience, sometimes for the whole soul. Generally, it denotes the whole soul of man and all the faculties of it, not absolutely, but as they are all one principle of moral operations, as they all concur in our doing of good and evil."

3. Figurative Senses:
The radical corruption of human nature is clearly taught in Scripture and brought into connection with the heart. It is "uncircumcised" (Jer 9:26; Ezek 44:7; compare Acts 7:51); and "hardened" (Ex 4:21); "wicked" (Prov 26:23); "perverse" (Prov 11:20); "godless" (Job 36:13); "deceitful and desperately wicked" (Jer 17:9 the King James Version). It defiles the whole man (Matt 15:19-20); resists, as in the case of Pharaoh, the repeated call of God (Ex 7:13). There, however, the law of God is written (Rom 2:15); there the work of grace is wrought (Acts 15:9), for the "heart" may be "renewed" by grace (Ezk 36:26), because the "heart" is the seat of sin (Gen 6:5; 8:21).

4. The Heart First:
We might also refer here to the command, on which both the Old Testament and New Testament revelation of love is based: "Thou shalt love Yahweh thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might" (Deut 6:5) and "And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself." (Lk 10:27); where "heart" always takes the first place, and is the term which in the New Testament rendering remains unchanged (compare Mt 22:37; Mk 12:30,33; Lk 10:27, where "heart" always takes precedence).


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Pilgrim #50401 Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:09 PM
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Pilgrim
No time at the moment to say too much; other that to say if that is only your 2 cents worth, what would your 5 cents look like? BigThumbUp

Tom

Pilgrim #50406 Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:32 PM
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Pilgrim,
Thanks for your input, it is insightful as always.


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Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

The heart is where desires come from (Matt 6:21). The new heart is given to us when we are regenerated. We are regenerated when the Holy Spirit comes into our heart. When we are given a new heart, we are given the ability to have Godly desires (Rom 8:5) and the ability to see things from God’s perspective (1 Cor 2:16). Having Godly desires is what it means to have a “heart of flesh”. The heart of flesh is alive and hot as opposed to the stony heart which is which dead and cold. (Rev 3:15).


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