The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum A Doctrinal Ministry Concern

The following is a excerpt from a series of exchanges on our ministry forum. It was precipitated due to a change in the Statement of Beliefs of a ministry that furnished a link to our Christian Training Center. During the exchange a comment concerning Calvinism was directed at the Statement of Beliefs. In fact, there was no hint of Calvinism in the Statement of Beliefs. The Statement of Belief indicates The problem was in their reference to the Fall, a denial of Original Sin and also appears to reference Soul Sleep and Annihilation or Destruction of the Soul. The basic exchange goes beyond the errors contained in the Statement of Beliefs to my defense of Calvinism. You can see how important it is not to let this go by. In the final email exchange a different tone can be noted when Predestination is presented as a valid, historical doctrine of the bible.
I apologize for the length of this piece but it is necessary to indicate the facts concerning the defense of Calvinism.
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1. A response from Harry, the Ministry Director, to my concern over the Statement of Beliefs.
Folks

I would like your insight on this as I am concerned about what is being said here.

II.  The Helpless State of Mankind - Infants are born innocent, in the image of God. However, all have been given a free will, and soon rebel against God -- first out of ignorance, and then willfully. Once someone has willfully sinned, God's justice requires the condemnation of death. Man is totally incapable on his own of pleasing God, or securing his own salvation. Unless God rescues him, he is in a hopeless, helpless predicament, awaiting God's judgment, death and permanent destruction.
VIII.  Conditional Immortality - God alone possesses immortality. All creatures are continuously dependent on Him for life itself. Man does not have an "immortal soul"; he IS "a living soul" -- a body animated by the breath of God. Death is not the departure of an immaterial ghost from the body, but God's taking back the "breath of life" which He has loaned to every person. Death is sleep, not a conscious existence in another realm. Therefore, punishment or reward can only be realized through resurrection of the body. Resurrection to eternal life is a gift of God granted only to those whom God declares righteous.
  Soul Sleep?
XVII.  The Destruction of the Wicked - "... when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe." Annihilation?


2. My response:

I would be interested in reading a response to this inquiry. So far no one has responded. The ministry which provided the link to the CTC has changed its Statement of Beliefs and revamped the CTC. Bishop Harry is asking if you are in agreement with the Statement of Beliefs?  We were not notified that this change had been made. As it affects the Christian Training center linked to Star Vision Christian Ministries it is vital that we are in accord with the Statement of Beliefs and that they are in accord with ScripturesUnfortunately, the answers to the question have already been posted, although many probably are not aware of it.

Your question appears to remain unanswered. May I suggest a possible solution? I believe that it is imperative that a minister be able to identify a 'false' doctrine. If they are unable it is highly probable that they will depart from the Scripture themselves over time. We should be equipping our candidates to be able to not only identify 'false' doctrine but to defend against it.

Since the question posted has not been responded to- suppose it was a mandatory question sent directly to 'all' ministerial candidates requiring their response? With consequences specified for non-compliance?  Each candidate could be required to do due diligence in researching and compiling a reply as to the errors and biblical scriptures supporting his/her reply. 


3. Comment from Ministry Director:
Don ,
I agree and will ask Bonnie to include it in the welcome letter as a per-requisite for the program.

4. Comment from Olivia, forum Member:

This statement does not suggest grace but it implies pre-destination. Which is Calvinism. The God I am in service to is "not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."  He hung a world wide invitation on a tree two thousand years ago so that whosoever believeth should not perish..but have everlasting life.

 Falsehoods that are being aimed at the Church are being fired shrouded in truth. So you may see a thread of truth within but we have to look deeper...just like a bruised apple, with  the naked eye the fruit might appear delicious and wholesome, but upon closer inspection you notice the bruise and if not cut out it will spread.  Hence, we as Christians are to "Study to show ourselves approved unto God...so that we may be workmen without cause to be ashamed." II Timothy 2:15

5. My Response to the charge of Calvinism:

Grace is the totally unmerited,undeserved,  sovereign act of God. Man is incapable of earning, meriting or deserving  or even cooperating with God to receive it.  Man does not willingly come to God on his own until he is convicted by the Holy Spirit.

“There is no one righteous, not even one; Romans 3:10

 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,  in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,  among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others .   But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,  even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),  and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,  that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.  For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. Ephesians 2:1-9

“The heart is deceitful above all things,
And desperately wicked;
Who can know it?
 Jer. 17:9

The statement of a child being born innocent is unbiblical. We are all born separated from God, spiritually dead, incapable of doing anything relative to God without His grace, as the result of Original Sin.

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.
Psalm 51:5

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned Romans 5:12


Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.  Romans 8:7


So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.Rom. 8:8

But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor. 2:14


I did not see anything resembling Calvinism in the Statement of Beliefs. I did see references to Soul Sleep and Annihilation.

As far as Predestination is concerned that is a Biblical doctrine which existed much earlier than preached by St. Augustin, Martin Luther or John Calvin. We may not fully understand it but i hesitate to label it with a broad brush.

For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. Romans 8:29

And will not God give justice to his elect, who cry to him day and night? Will he delay long over them? Luke 18:7

 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. John 14:15-16

 For I have given them the words that you gave me, and they have received them and have come to know in truth that I came from you; and they have believed that you sent me.  I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours. John 17:8-9


And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed. Acts 13:48

Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.  Romans 8:33

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose.  For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
Romans 8:28-30

though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 1she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”  As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. Romans 9:11-13

What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,  Romans 11:7


For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards,[a] not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God.
1 Corinthians 1:26-29


Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved
, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, Colossians 3:12

For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thessalonians 5:9

But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits[a] to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.  2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ for the faith of God's elect and the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness--
Titus 1:1

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,
To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.  John 6:37

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. John 6:44

6. Response from Olivia, Forum Member:
Amen!! Brother Don. So many beautiful passages in the Scriptures on grace as well as it being
 biblical that we are born in sin. Predestination is very biblical, as Paul speaks of and so forth. I hope there are others listening in that observed your quick and immediate response. We as ministers ought to be able to wield the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God against any rumors, speculations, and half truths. Too many ministries die because they are willing to accept 'opinions' and 'doctrines' because they fail to filter them through the Word of God. Once again, thank you.

7. Final response from Ministry Director:

Olivia and Don

I agree with both of you and feel that since this has taken place we have uncovered something that needs to be taught in our ministerial preparedness program.  However to do so would involve someone rewriting a module to include this and while that would be great, I just believe we need to watch what our candidates write in their current programs as to see if they have any indications that their have other than our beliefs.

Is this the Statement of Belief that is under discussion?

I don't see anything there to indicate what you've written about. I certainly would take issue with a few other things in that doctrinal statement however.

Perhaps I have the wrong web site? Or perhaps the issue has already been resolved?

Robin,

I did not copy the ministry's full Statement of Beliefs to the article. The email recipients were viewing the whole statement as we discussed it. My concern was due to 3 of the articles, the statement that a child was born innocent, a departure from Original Sin , the belief expressed in Soul Sleep and Annihilation or Destruction of the soul.

Actually I had discussed these directly with the director of that ministry to no avail.That person was a friend with whom I had worked with over a period of at least two years.

When it became evident that the entire Training Center furnished by that ministry had been revamped I became concerned, since it was linked to our site and forum and many of our members were receiving training there. The issue of Calvinism was a side issue that wasn't even involved until someone read it into the Statement of Beliefs. But I felt that it was important enough to correct that charge. Too often knee jerk opinions to Calvinism or Reformed Theology have arisen in the ministry before, due to insufficient knowledge. This is something that I attempt to correct a bit at a time by posting articles and discussions.