The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Need some help.

Good day everyone! It has been a while since I posted something here. The last year was very busy and it seems as if 2016 is going to be even more challenging at work.

I need some help on a church matter. If you check my previous posts you will see that with about a three year cycle I posted something about our denomination's synod meeting where the issue of women in church office still is an issue that is discussed. This post is no different.

In 2015 we had our regular synod meeting at which quite a number of objections were submitted against a decision of the 2012 synod to not allow women to be ordained as elders and ministers (pastors). I can't remember the exact reason but it was decided that a special synod be called at the beginning of 2016 to discuss and decide on only the objections submitted for the 2015 synod. So, last week this special synod met and all the objections were eventually rejected. This means that the decision of the 2012 synod still stands.

My problem now lies with my own pastor. In 2012, on the Sunday after the synod ended, in reaction to the decision of the synod, he said from the pulpit that "this is not what one would have wanted", meaning to say that he and others do not "like" the decision of the synod. Now, what upset me of this statement (then and now) was that at the 2012 synod, before voting, there was serious prayer that the Lord guide the synod in this vote. What the minister's statement implied for me is that since the outcome of the vote was not in support of his view (which is that women can be ordained), the Holy Spirit didn't guide the synod.

Last Sunday, although not with the same words, he made a similar statement. In this case he said the issue of the ordination of women is not a central issue of our faith. In 2012 I did not reacted to his statement but I now feel that the time is ripe to seriously react to these statements.

It certainly is true that when proclaiming the Gospel and someone comes to faith in Christ, that the issue of the ordination of women does not play any role. In this sense one can then say that "Honor your father and mother" as well as "You shall not steal" also are not central issues of our faith. In a similar way, God's command in Exodus 23:4,5 which reads “If you meet your enemy's ox or his donkey going astray, you shall bring it back to him. If you see the donkey of one who hates you lying down under its burden, you shall refrain from leaving him with it; you shall rescue it with him" can also be seen not as a central issue in our faith.

However, and this is how I see it, true faith in Christ implies obedience to His commandments. And none of these commandments were given for no reason at all. God's commandments reflects His character and His people should also reflect His character. Is this not why He repeatedly said "Be holy as I am holy". Thus, when someone comes to faith he/she is brought to obedience to God to joyfully obey His commands. Through the work of the Holy Spirit the person then sees the real meaning of the command and it is no burden to obey. Honoring father and mother, not stealing and, loving your enemy (which is implicit in Exodus 23:4,5) then becomes part of your faith in Christ. Moses always reminded Israel to keep all the commands and not only certain commands.

Question: Am I reasoning in the right way here to make the connection to the statements of the minister? Surely, Paul's instructions to Timothy, Titus and the churches in Ephesus and Corinth are similar to Moses' instructions to Israel: they are from God.

If you can add anything else I shall appreciate it.

Johan

Your reasoning is fine, i.e., ALL that God commands is to be obeyed. One cannot pick and choose what is important and what can be ignored. On the practical level, yes there are some matters which are weightier than others, but none can be categorized as irrelevant or unimportant.

On this matter of women occupying positions of authority in the Church, I believe it to be a most important matter, vs. your 'pastor'. When a sinner is drawn to Christ through the sovereign, secret work of the Holy Spirit, he/she is brought out of darkness into light. And that person is called OUT OF this world and INTO the kingdom of God and His Church. The visible church is the earthly manifestation of Christ's rule on earth. Of course, the visible church isn't an exact representation of the invisible church, for the visible church consists of both wheat and tares and is imperfect in doctrine and life to various degrees. However, regardless of the visible church's less than perfect presence, nevertheless it is required to preach, teach and live out ALL that God commands, requires of its members. And one of the MAIN requirements is that men only should be elders (NOTE: there is no mention of a bifurcation in the eldership; pastor and elder) and deacons. Paul, by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, is very explicit regarding the qualifications for those two offices, e.g., HE must be literally "one wife's husband". The pronoun "he" is used throughout Paul's injunctions in both 1Tim 3:1-13 and Titus 1:5-9.

Thus, the Church is to be pure in both doctrine and life and its organization is to be obedient to what Christ has intended and commanded for it, since the Church is the "Bride of Christ" and is to be pure and holy in ALL things. The church of this world is quickly becoming more like the world for it has not only allowed but even deliberately brought into it the things of this world so that it is sometimes very difficult to see any difference between the two. Allowing women to be ordained to office in the visible church is just another attempt by sinful men to blur the lines between 'the world, the flesh, and the devil' and God's holy church. I believe this is a VERY important matter and one which God will one day bring severe punishment upon all those who have violated His "Bride" through their disobedience and bringing shame upon Christ's church.

Thanks, Jeff.