Donations for the month of October


We have received a total of "$0" in donations towards our goal of $175.


Don't want to use PayPal? Go HERE


Forum Search
Member Spotlight
Posts: 97
Joined: April 2013
Forum Statistics
Forums30
Topics7,297
Posts53,252
Members964
Most Online523
Jan 14th, 2020
Top Posters
Pilgrim 14,045
Tom 4,047
chestnutmare 3,086
J_Edwards 2,615
Wes 1,856
John_C 1,818
RJ_ 1,583
MarieP 1,579
gotribe 1,060
Top Posters(30 Days)
Pilgrim 24
Tom 12
Robin 5
Johan 3
Readin 2
Meta4 1
Recent Posts
NeoCalvinism
by Pilgrim - Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:26 PM
The Nick-name Calvinism
by Pilgrim - Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:06 PM
Natural Theology
by Anthony C. - Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:47 AM
Wilderness Wealth
by NetChaplain - Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:57 AM
Your opinion please
by Johan - Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:03 AM
True of False
by NetChaplain - Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:26 PM
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rating: 5
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#54752 Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 2
Annie Oakley
OP Offline
Annie Oakley
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 2
Friends,

There has been some expressed interest in having a study of the Heidelberg Catechism, so we hope this will be helpful to all involved. We will go chronologically through the entire Catechism should there be sufficient consistent interest. The Catechism is located in our Creeds and Catechisms section which contains not only all of the questions and answers but the commentary that was written by the authors of the Catechism.

This catechism was written by Zacharias Ursinus (1534-1583) and Caspar Olevianus (1536-1584) in Heidelberg, Germany and published in 1563 in German. It was endorsed by the Synod of Dort and embraced by Continental Reformed Churches in many different countries. It is the custom of many churches that use it to preach from it from the pulpit every week throughout the year in the Sunday evening service, so it is divided into fifty-two weekly sections.

We hope many will join in and participate. Remember, in order to comment or to see certain parts of the Board, (some forums are members only) you will have to log in otherwise you will only be allowed to read.


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 11
Plebeian
Offline
Plebeian
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 11
I'm looking forward to this study. Thank you.

Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8
Plebeian
Offline
Plebeian
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8
I am also looking forward to the study. Thanks!


On Christ the solid rock I stand; all other ground is sinking sand.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,060
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,060
when will this study begin?


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 2
Annie Oakley
OP Offline
Annie Oakley
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 2
Sorry, I had to put it on hold for a bit but perhaps as soon as March 1st?


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,060
Old Hand
Offline
Old Hand
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,060
Excellent! I look forward to participating.


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 2
Annie Oakley
OP Offline
Annie Oakley
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 2
Sorry, it has taken so long to get this discussion started. I lost my job and started a new home business so things have been quite busy and hectic for a while. So that said, perhaps we can now turn our attention to what I hope will be a study and discussion that will benefit all who are willing to participate.

May I point out that we have a section given to Creeds, Confessions and Catechisms and in that section, you will find the entire Heidelberg Catechism together with its commentary written by Zacharias Ursinus. This is a very important resource for this study and I would encourage you to begin by reading through the first section which is a brief history of the Catechism.

We will begin with a consideration of Question 1 and 2 of the Heidelberg which you will find a link for in this section. Note, the commentary follows along with each question throughout the Heidelberg forum.

Additionally, we have also provided a sermon by Rev. G.H. Kersten Lord's Day 1—Question 1 on this section of the Catechism which I hope you will read as well. I personally loved it and found it to be of much benefit.

Something I hope that you will consider as you examine this first question is, who do you think is the Heidelberg actually addressing? Hint: the authors state their intended readership but given the way this first question and answer are phrased, who is it that this question should actually be addressed to?


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 2
Annie Oakley
OP Offline
Annie Oakley
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,086
Likes: 2
Let me try again. Who do you think the Heidelberg is actually addressing? In other words: Who in your estimation is the proper audience, given the way the Catechism phrases the question and answer?

Hint: the authors state their intended readership but given the way this first question and answer are phrased, who is it that this question should actually be addressed to?


The Chestnut Mare
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by frost.
- - - -JRR Tolkien "Lord of the Rings"
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8
Plebeian
Offline
Plebeian
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8
In my estimation the Heidelberg is actually addressing Christians and is not recommended for missionary work. I gleaned that from reading the brief history.


On Christ the solid rock I stand; all other ground is sinking sand.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,046
Likes: 13
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,046
Likes: 13
Curious.... grin Would you say that the Heidelberg is best taught to professing adult Christians only? Or, do you think that children should be catechized using the Heidelberg? scratchchin


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 11
Plebeian
Offline
Plebeian
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 11
I believe the catechism was addressing the youth for instruction, and for guiding pastors and teachers.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,046
Likes: 13
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,046
Likes: 13
Originally Posted by Tina
I believe the catechism was addressing the youth for instruction, and for guiding pastors and teachers.
Tina,

Thanks for responding to my question. I would like to travel a bit further on this if I may.

1) How would you (and others, of course) compare the 1st Q&A of the Heidelberg Catechism and the 1st Q&A of the Westminster Shorter Catechism? Put another way, what do you see as one of the major differences between the two in their approach?

2) Depending upon how you (and others) answer that question, and...given how you answered above, "In my estimation the Heidelberg is actually addressing Christians and is not recommended for missionary work.", where does "the youth" fit in to all this? How would you classify them? scratchchin


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8
Plebeian
Offline
Plebeian
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8
The difference I see is that in the Westminster Shorter Catechism the chief end of man is the question and the glory of God is the answer where in the Heidelberg Catechism the focus is on what God has done for the believer and in a believers life and gives assurance that he does ultimately glorify God by the working of the Holy Spirit in his life. We are not our own...which I believe both questions address, and glorifying God both questions address. Hope that comes across clearly. smile

2. In looking deeper into this question I have found that it is geared to the youth as well as older believers in order to answer questions that they might have so that they can get a deeper understanding of the scriptures. It speaks at a level they can understand. Using the Catechism with the youth of the church will help to ensure a harvest of righteousness for generations to come.The youth are the future of the Church. It helps in times of conflict to go the the Catechism which has the answers clearly spelled out. Also, it promotes consistency for adults and pastors and is helpful in helping to detect heresy.

Last edited by cathmg; Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:26 PM. Reason: Forgot to answer the second question..

On Christ the solid rock I stand; all other ground is sinking sand.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,046
Likes: 13
Head Honcho
Offline
Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 14,046
Likes: 13
1. My assessment of a comparison of the two catechisms is: The WSC is written in the 3rd person, i.e., from an objective perspective. The HC is written in the 1st person, i.e., from a subjective perspective.

2. Since #1 is indisputably true then it must also be true that ONLY professing believers, i.e., those who have made a biblical, credible profession of faith should be taught the Heidelberg Catechism. To use the HC to teach children and those who haven't made a biblical, credible profession of faith would be to convey a false sense of assurance to those who are unworthy and who are yet under the just wrath of God. Those who hold to "presumptive regeneration" would strongly disagree, of course, by the very fact that they believe that covenant children are to be presumed regenerate or at least have the "seed of faiith" within them and thus the HC applies to them and the assurance of salvation belongs to them unless they totally repudiate the faith sometime in the future.

It used to be that such a view was held predominately by those in the Continental Reformed Churches, i.e., the Dutch Reformed denominations. But over the past few decades, this view has been adopted and practiced, albeit perhaps not officially on the books within a number of Presbyterian Churches and other independent churches. The consequences of this view has been disastrous in that these churches are filled with unregenerate members who have a false assurance of their spiritual condition and of eternal life.

Okay, so to get straight to the point, it is my firm and unwavering conviction that the Heidelberg Catechism should ONLY be used as a teaching aid for those who have made a biblical, credible profession of faith and who are members of a local church. Let me stress also that I include "biblical" as an inseparable part of a credible profession of faith, especially in our present day due to the proliferation of false gospels within the vast majority of churches, not just the evangelical variety, but sadly also within the Reformed denominations. Thus, I see the WSC as being a more universal source for teaching biblical truth regardless of the spiritual condition of those being taught. And, the HC is a special and narrow source reserved for those who have been effectually called by God, regenerated by the Spirit, united to the Lord Christ through a living faith and who are seeking a life of holiness before God. The Heidelberg is a personal and particular statement of one's own faith in Christ and thus it should be reserved for those who profess a Spirit-wrought faith but also have the marks of that faith.

Just so you know, I love the WSC, WLC and the Heidelberg catechisms. I just believe they should be used to teach particular types of people. grin


[Linked Image]

simul iustus et peccator

[Linked Image]
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 11
Plebeian
Offline
Plebeian
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 11
Thank you, Pilgrim, I appreciated reading your understanding of the questions, and the information you share.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 111 guests, and 15 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
atdcross, NetChaplain, winslowlady, Zach, Daverogk
964 Registered Users
ShoutChat
Comment Guidelines: Do post respectful and insightful comments. Don't flame, hate, spam.
October
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Today's Birthdays
There are no members with birthdays on this day.
Popular Topics(Views)
1,294,203 Gospel truth