Spurred from another post, I was wondering how many of you look at the Pentecostal church theologically and historically.<br><br><ul>What is right about it?<br><br>What is wrong with it?<br><br>What is its history, or lack thereof?
Does not Pentecostalism have its roots in the 2nd century through a certain Montanus who claimed to be a divinley inspired prophet ?<br><br>Montanus said " I am the Lord God Omnipotent who has descended into a man ".<br><br>The Montanists were exposed by the Council of Constantinople in 381.<br><br>In Germany between 1517 and 1648 a sect began claiming miraculous healings and the gift of tongues and in France in 1650 .<br><br>Then we move on to the 19th century and once again these gifts were claimed by a certain Rev Edward Irving who was in turn excommunicated by the Presbytery of London in 1830.<br><br>The rest they say is history . But I believe these are the roots of modern-day Pentecostalism.<br><br>I see nothing right with it and everything wrong and I have spent much time witnessing to these poor deluded folk concerning their involvement with it . <br><br>I personally know many, many former Pentecostals who now realise that Pentecostalism is indeed of Satan and his demons.<br><br>To witness Pentecostalism at work today simply watch God tv for a couple of hours !<br><br>howard<br><br>Matthew 24:24 kjv<br><br>
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]What is right about it?</font><hr></blockquote><p><br>An appreciation for supernaturalism. While there is definitely excess, Pentecostals cannot be accused of having a deistic conception of God. While the dispensation of charisms in our time is debatable, Pentecostals should be commended for their belief that God still continues to use his Spirit for the edification of the believer.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]What is wrong with it?</font><hr></blockquote><p><br>The elevation of experience over reason. Most Pentecostals are guilty of the same error of the Pietists: the divorcing the head from the heart.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]What is its history, or lack thereof? </font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Within Pentecostalism, there have been three predominant movements: classical Pentecostalism, the charismatic movement, and "the third wave". <br><br>Classical Pentecostalism was an offshoot of the Holiness movement, and its seminal figures were William Seymour and Charles Parham. While the Holiness movement states that the baptism of the Holy Spirit is achieved through perfection, the Pentecostals stated that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was an objective experience. However, because of the quick growth of the Pentecostal movement during its infant stages, classical Pentecostal theology tended to fluctuate. Thus, there are three streams of theology within classical Pentecostalism. There is Oneness Pentecostalism (ex. United Pentecostal Church and T.D. Jakes) which subscribes to modalism; there is Holiness Pentecostalism (ex. Pentecostal Holiness Church and Smith Wigglesworth) which believes that spiritual gifts only occur ofter one has attained personal holiness; there is Baptist Pentecostalism which believes that spiritual gifts are available to all (ex. Assemblies of God and Oral Roberts).<br><br>The charismatic movement started in the '60s. The catalyst was when Dennis Bennett, an Episcopal priest, announced to his congregation that he had received the gift of tongues. From this, the charismatic movement spread to virtually every denomination, including Catholic and Reformed. Unlike Pentecostalism, the charismatic movement never spawned many denominations, although a few denominations are known to exist (Charismatic Episcopal Communion). Amongst those who call themselves charismatic are Chuck Colson (who is Baptist) and Michael Green (who is Anglican). As well, charismatics do not believe you must speak in tongues in order to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit -- they believe it happens at conversion.<br><br>Finally, there is the "Third Wave" that was spawned in the '80s. It's biggest proponents were C. Peter Wagner of Fuller Seminary, and John Wimber (founder of the Vineyard denomination). The "Third Wave" emphasizes signs and wonders, especially in regards to evangelism, than do both the classical Pentecostals and charismatics. As well, most of them come from a dispensational background, as is reflected on their emphasis on "latter rain" (which the Assemblies of God pronounced to be heretical).<br><br>With all that said, my sympathies lie more with the charismatics.
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]What is its history, or lack thereof?</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Here's some information from a paper I wrote:<br><br>"The American Pentecostal [movement], though it has several overarching characteristics, is complex and diverse, owing in great part to its history. Some of the earliest influences on the development of Pentecostalism came from the restoration, premillennial [dispensationalism], healing, and Holiness movements of the latter half of the nineteenth century. Restorationism focused primarily on God’s desire to restore the primitive New Testament church, and [dispensational] premillennialism denotes a belief in the secret rapture of the church before the Great Tribulation and the Second Coming of Christ as illustrated in the Book of Revelation. The healing movement posited that miraculous physical healing by means of faithful prayer and the laying on of hands is available to the believer as a promise of the Holy Spirit. The Holiness movement, largely an outgrowth of Wesleyanism, emphasized the power for perfection in Christian living imbued through 'baptism in the Holy Spirit.'<br><br>"Out of this general milieu arose an itinerant preacher by the name of Charles Fox Parham. Parham had been influenced strongly by Holiness teachings, and set up his own Bible college in Topeka, Kansas. There he asked his students to study the Scriptures for the evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit, with particular focus on the second chapter of Acts. The students concluded that the evidence was speaking in other tongues, and on January 1, 1901, Agnes Ozman did just that. But this new experience was not accepted by many others, and Parham’s gospel spread slowly. In 1905, he set up a mission and Bible college for his Apostolic Faith Movement in Houston, Texas, where black Baptist preacher William Joseph Seymour came to believe in the doctrine of Holy Spirit baptism with the evidence of tongues. Before he had received the baptism in the Holy Spirit, Seymour travelled in 1906 to Los Angeles with Parham’s blessing, where he eventually established the Azusa Street mission.<br><br>"The Azusa Street mission was founded amidst a city brimming with Holiness missions. It attracted thousands of seekers, and worship practices were spontaneous, ecstatic, and interracial in character. The revival there spawned several others and received extensive coverage in the press, and eventually Pentecostal revival missions were popping up all over the country and world. As Robert Anderson writes, 'The Pentecostal movement came upon the religious world in 1906 like a meteor.' The Pentecostal movement would later be divided by several internal controversies—some of which had the potential to destroy the movement altogether—but Pentecostalism survived and emerged in the second half of the century as a widely accepted and influential movement within conservative Protestant evangelicalism."<br><br>Works cited in original paper:<br><br>1. Robert Mapes Anderson, Vision of the Disinherited: The Making of American Pentecostalism (New York: Oxford University Press, 1979).<br><br>2. Edith L. Blumhoffer, Restoring the Faith: The Assemblies of God, Pentecostalism, and American Culture (Chicago, Ill.: University of Illinois Press, 1993).
Kyle
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified.
Can't answer that one Joe, suffice to say the former Pentecostals that are known to me believe themselves to be christians now but not as Pentecostals.<br><br>Similar story with former RC's . arminians . jw's , mormons , etc, etc.........................<br><br>howard
My guess is that there could be Pentacostal's who are Christians...cuz there are people from a lot of different places who are truly saved...just maybe a little bit confused on some stuff...
Dear Mr. Rabbit:<br><br>Thanks for your comments on Pentecostalism. <br><br>I was interested in what you said about the Pietists. I have read nothing about them at all. Could you recommend something balanced on them? If not one book that is balanced then one that points out primarily their weakness and failings and one that mentions their strengths, if any?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Gerry
Oddly enough, my mother, who is ordained pentecostal, is soteriologically reformed. However, she still maintains her stance on the gifts. Just a side note.<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william
It's hard to say whether a Pentecostal is saved or not due to the fact that for the first 80 years of its existence, there has never been a systematic theologian embraced by most Pentecostals. Gordon Fee would probably be the one outstanding systematic theologian, but there needs to be more (Grudem, BTW, does not identify himself as a Pentecostal). Interestingly, the only two areas that Pentecostals have really been interested in are pneumatology (for obvious reasons) and missiology. Thus, most Pentecostals are a concoction of theology from different traditions, and they rarely think about consistency.<br><br>The denomination I am affiliated with is very interesting in this regard. While most of the Bible college faculty are soteriologically Reformed, the administration is Arminian.
Most of my information comes from the journals of John Wesley, the history of Herrnut, and some internet resources. Would you like me to post some links, or are you just looking for books?
Dear Mr. Rabbit:<br><br>Thanks for the reply. I was looking for books primarily, but if you have some links that you think are balanced I would check them out. Who was Herrnut?<br><br>Thanks,<br><br>Gerry
Herrnhut was the Moravian Brethren colony established by Count Nicholas von Zinzendorf. It was the Moravians who were responsible for the conversion of John Wesley. Thus, Moravians are also responsible for the Arminian theological strain within the English-speaking evangelical world. Incidently, the Moravians were also pietists.
