The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Supersessionism brings about amil

Someone asked me the influece of Plato on amillenialism, and that is way beyond my paygrade. Then the subject of the closeness of amil and supersessionism came up. I haven't heard of supersessionism before but googling it seems to indicate it is replacement theology. I'm Amil, but disagree with the concept of replacement theology. Any help in responding to this?

John I am sure others will respond, but let me just state that I myself am Amil.
Get used to people saying you believe in ‘Replacement Theology’. It is a lie that Dispensationalists often use.

The Church does not replace Israel, it is Israel and Israel is the Church.
Those in Christ are the true Israel.
Read Gal.3:27-29.
We are Abraham’s offspring, because we are in Christ.

John 8:39-42 is also helpful.

Tom

I too am Amil, and I usually refer people who accuse us of "replacement theology" to Romans 4:1-16 (and 9:8), where the Apostle explains that Abraham's heirs are the children of his faith rather than his flesh, and that Israel was not replaced, but rather greatly multiplied by the grafting-in of heirs of Abraham by faith (Romans 11).

Many who see physical Israel as God's chosen unfortunately don't comprehend the spirituality of the Bible and that God's eternal plan was not the nation but a chosen people, aka: elect. Thus the true people of God are exemplified in Abraham who "believed God and it was reckoned/accounted/imputed to him as righteousness?. The line of the chosen included Gentiles as well who were eventually and effectually called en masse after the incarnation, life, death and resurrection of Christ of whom Paul refers; i.e., those are of the faith of Abraham (cf Rom 9:6, 14-23). Thus the "church in the OT" is built not upon ethnicity, but through faith in Christ alone which is the same in the NT. Thus nothing was replaced but fulfilled in Christ.

I hold to historical premil, so would say that national israel still has a place and part in the program of God, but ONLY in the time of the second coming event, so until that event happening, all saved out jews will have to come thjru the Messiah, the lord jesus, same way all saved gentiles do

Sooooooo, what happens after "the time of the second coming event"? Are "all saved Jews" not required to be united with Christ by repentance and faith? Oh, I don't quite comprehend your statement, "all saved out jews will have to come thjru the Messiah".

1. What is a "saved out jew"?
2. If someone is saved, isn't it because they have repented and believed upon the Messiah? So, if they are already saved according to the biblical teaching, then why would they have to subsequently "come thjru the Messiah"?

Jesus fan

Some questions for you.

1.) Are there two, peoples of God, or just one?
Namely, if one. Spiritual in nature, rather than physical in nature. Made up of elect Jews and grafted in elect Gentiles.

2.) Do you believe the Church is the Israel of God?

3.) What is your understanding of Gal. 3:26-29?

4.) Does the future include actual return of land to Israel?

Tom

Pilgrim

Well put!

I meant that ther Jews who are really saved Jews, those in the faithful remnant called out by God, would be ones who have received Jesus as their promised Messiah, so would then be true heirs of Abraham spiritually

Thanks great questions!
One people of God in the new Covenant saved jews and gentiles in the body of Christ, all having received Jesus as their Savior messiah and Lord
Church is spiritual Israel in the new Covenant
All who are saved and redeemed by God are now spiritual heirs of father Abraham, part of the one Body of Christ
Would hold to Jesus establishing a Millennium upon the earth at Second Coming, hence premil

What scriptures teach the millennium being a totally future event? Post them and let’s examine them side by side.

Jesusfan
Glad to see you believe there is one people of God.

I believe the Highway has an excellent section on eschatology.

Tom

Amil's and Dispie's are speaking past one another...

When an Amil says things like: "Get used to people saying you believe in ‘Replacement Theology’. IT IS A LIE that Dispensationalists often use. The Church does not replace Israel, IT IS ISRAEL and Israel is the Church. Those in Christ are the true Israel."

A Dispie hears: There's no distinction between the Nation of Israel and the Church. If the Church is the Nation of Israel, then that's the very definition of ‘Replacement Theology’. So the Nation of Israel has been superceded or "replaced" by the Church.

When an Amil says things like: "I usually refer people who accuse us of "replacement theology" to Romans 4:1-16 (and 9:8), where the Apostle explains that Abraham's heirs are the children of his faith rather than his flesh, and that Israel was not replaced, but rather greatly multiplied by the grafting-in of heirs of Abraham by faith (Romans 11)."

A Dispie wonders: Why are you talking Abraham??? We are talking about the physical seed of Jacob, not the spiritual seed of Abraham. Please show us any Scripture that says: "The Church is the seed of Jacob"

When someone says: "Many who see physical Israel as God's chosen unfortunately don't comprehend the spirituality of the Bible and that God's eternal plan was not the nation but a chosen people"

A Dispie says: God's plan is spiritual, and ethnic Israel has a future. Abrahamic is literal physical land/seed/blessing (Gen 12,15,17) and spiritual (Gal 3:29). Davidic is an eternal Jerusalem throne (2 Sam 7), not the Church. Israel is not rejected (Rom 11); irrevocable gifts; “all Israel saved” (25-29). Literal regathering (Ezek 36-37), Jerusalem (Zech 12-14) = physical Israel. In the Millennium, Israel leads the nations (Isa 2, Zech 8); the Church with Christ (Rev 20). This honors the irrevocable covenants (Rom 11:29) and faith salvation.

In my opinion, every Christian is a dispie to a degree. Every Christian acknowledges that the content of the message God gave to the steward's of each economy was different. Adam was told to not eat of the fruit. Noah was told to build an Ark. Moses was given the Law. Christ died for the sins of the world. The Church is to make disciples of all nations (including the Nation of Israel); but I digress.

Maranatha!!

I was going to respond, but then I read post #2 from Tom. I believe Tom said it well. Get used to it. Many use replacement theology as if it is truth and has some weight that an Amillennialist must work through. Totally false. If anyone has to prove their system correct its the dipsy's. And they have a tough time because of what Christ has done.


Blessings