The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum What is the 3rd Heaven?

Hello all,<br><br>On my way home tonight I picked up a Christian station, came in somewhere in the middle of it, and the reception wasn't very good. But I did hear the speaker (Charles Swindoll?) mention the 3rd Heaven. I'm assuming there must be a 1st and 2nd, and I've often heard of 7th heaven, but only in a secular super-adjective kind of way. <br><br>I thought there was only one, so where do the other 6 (or are there more?) come from?<br>And who is Charles Swindoll? <br><br>Thanks in advance..<br><br>Hannahsmom<br>

Paul referenced to the 3rd heaven when describing his experience with God.<br>Chas Swindall is very well known, or at least so here on the left coast. He pastored a church in the L.A. area for several years, then served as president of Dallas Theological Seminary for a while. I believe he is now in the pastorate in the Dallas Tex area.<br><br>As far as "knowing" what the 3rd heaven is------I dunno.

Paul mentions being caught up in the 3rd heaven in 2 Corinthians 12. The bible study note refers to it as the dwelling place of God. <br><br>Chuck Swindoll is a popular radio Pastor and is presently President of Dallas Theological Seminary.

While Swindoll is a dispensationalist, I have benefitted from his writings:<br><br>"Chuck Swindoll (b. 1934) - president of Dallas Theological Seminary until recently (though still on the faculty); attempting to de-emphasize the centrality of dispensationalism in the seminary's theology. Also host of Insight for Living. Though a non-charismatic in the Evangelical Free Church, Swindoll works closely with Baptists and calls for cooperation with charismatic evangelicals in evangelism and other ministries. His many books include the Great Lives from God's Word series, The Mystery of God's Will, Intimacy with the Almighty, Growing Strong in the Seasons of Life, and The Grace Awakening."<br><br>http://faith.propadeutic.com/authors/dispcont.html<br><br>By the way, the "free" in EFCA does not mean Arminian free will:<br><br>"The term Free refers to our form of church government as being congregational. Evangelical Free Churches depend upon the active participation of lay people in the decisions and directions."<br><br>http://www.efca.org/about/index.html<br><br>As for the third heaven, 2 Corinthians 12:1-6 reads:<br><br>1 Boasting is necessary, though it is not profitable; but I will go on to visions and revelations of the Lord. <br>2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven. <br>3 And I know how such a man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows--<br>4 was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak. <br>5 On behalf of such a man I will boast; but on my own behalf I will not boast, except in regard to my weaknesses. <br>6 For if I do wish to boast I will not be foolish, for I will be speaking the truth; but I refrain from this, so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me.<br><br>Here is John Gill's exposition of "third heaven":<br><br>"the seat of the divine Majesty, and the residence of the holy angels; where the souls of departed saints go immediately upon their dissolution; and the bodies and souls of those who have been translated, caught up, and raised already, are; and where the glorified body of Christ is and will be, until his second coming. This is called the "third" heaven, in respect to the airy and starry heavens. The apostle refers to a distinction among the Jews of (yatt aymvw yaeuym aymvw) (yalye aymv) , "the supreme heaven, the middle heaven, and the lower heaven"; and who also make a like division of worlds, and which they call (lpvh Mlwehw yeumah Mlwew Nwyle Mlwe) , "the supreme world, and the middle world, and the lower world"; and sometimes the world of angels, the world of the orbs, and the world of them below; and accordingly the Cabalistic doctors talk of three worlds; (hatylt amle) , "the third world", they say, is the supreme world, hidden, treasured, and shut up, which none can know; as it is written, "eye hath not seen"… and is the same with the apostle's "third heaven"."<br><br>http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commenta...se=002&next=003&prev=001

You may find the following article helpful: http://www.carm.org/questions/threeheavens.htm

Thanks everyone..it's getting clearer!

"seventh heaven " is from Islamic doctrine .<br><br>howard<br>

Ok...<br><br>But I thought we wre talking about third?

Thanks Howard,<br><br>I had no idea. My mother used the term to describe how she thought other people felt about a particular thing or event..'oh you should have seen her, she was in seventh heaven'. <br><br>Hannahsmom <br><br>

Marie, in Susans original post she was also unsure about "seventh heaven" as well as "third Heaven"<br><br>Third heaven has been dealt with and now you know the origin of seventh.<br><br>howard

Thaks, Howard/<br><br>I guess I didn't notice she mentioned it [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]

Susan,<br><br>I'm sorry I'm late to respond. But here's and interesting study on the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd heavens.<blockquote>[color:blue]<font class="big">The Three Heavens</font mu=big></font color=blue><br><br>In the book of II Corinthians, chapter 12, verse 2, the Apostle Paul speaks of a place called the "third heaven": <br><br>"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven."<br>(II Cor. 12:2 KJV) <br><br>During the six days of the Genesis regeneration the Lord God defined three heavens. The first heaven is the Earth's atmosphere: <br><br>"And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven."<br>(Gen 1:20 KJV)<br><br>The second heaven is the vast expanse of the physical universe; outer space, as we call it:<br><br>"And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:"<br>(Gen 1:14 KJV)<br><br>These two heavens constitute a continuum called the "firmament" and this firmament is collectively called "Heaven": <br><br>"And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."<br>(Gen 1:8 KJV)<br><br>All things within and below the firmament represent the location of the "Kingdom of Heaven," a topic we amplify on the page: The Kingdom of Heaven vs. Kingdom of God; the Doctrinal Difference. Although the "third heaven" is not directly mentioned in the Genesis narrative, there is mention of a boundary which presently exists between the two lower heavens (which constitute the firmament) and the third heaven (where the throne of God is). That boundary is a vast "Sea": <br><br>"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so."<br>(Gen 1:6-7 KJV)<br><br>On the second day of the creation, the Lord God "divided" the waters of the great "deep" into two parts. BOTH the waters that were upon the face of the Earth, and the waters which He placed ABOVE the two heavens of the firmament, He called "Seas":<br><br>"And God called the dry [land] Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that [it was] good."<br>(Gen 1:10 KJV)<br><br>(Special note: Notice that the word "Sea" is capitalized at Genesis 1:10 in the KJV Bible. So are the words "Day" and "Night" at Genesis 1:5. Special attention is called to the importance of these terms, as they can have either a physical and/or spiritual meaning throughout the Scriptures depending on the context.<br><br>Example: <br><br>"Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.<br>(1 Thessalonians 5:5 KJV)<br><br>Yes, the Scriptures say there is presently a sea above the two heavens of the firmament. And this is confirmed elsewhere in the Bible: <br><br>"Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that [be] above the heavens."<br>(Psalms 148:4 KJV)<br><br>This is the "sea" that John saw in his visions: <br><br>"And before the throne [there was] a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind."<br>(Rev 4:6 KJV)<br><br>The reason it appears like a smooth, crystal surface is because it is frozen: <br><br>"The waters are hid as [with] a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen."<br>(Job 38:30 KJV)<br><br>"And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness."<br>(Exodus 24:10 KJV)<br><br>That present "Sea" of separation will no longer exist when God destroys the old world and makes all things new after the final judgment: <br><br>"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea."<br>(Revelation 21:1 KJV)<br><br>In summary, here is the structure of the physical world as it now exists, from the face of the Earth upwards: The lower sea of physical waters (our seas and oceans) <br> The first heaven (the atmosphere) <br> The second heaven (outer space) <br> The sea above outer space and below the third heaven <br> And above it all, there is the Third Heaven. <br><br><br>"That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what [is] the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God."<br>(Ephesians 3:17-19 KJV)<br><br>That last passage makes more sense when you understand the conjunction "And" which separates the two clauses. The first clause tells us that the Bible reveals more than just past, present, and future time. It also tells us about the structure of all things in Creation, from the depths of hell to the throne of God in the highest heaven. And, of course, about the love of Christ which is beyond all measure.<br><br>Before closing this brief section, make note that the "waters above the firmament" of Genesis 1:6-7 are interpreted by Young Earth Creationists as being a theorized "water canopy" which was high above the Earth in the days between Adam and Noah and the source of all the water for Noah's flood. But as you have read for yourself in these verses from the Scriptures, that is most certainly not the case. Those "waters above the firmament" are above the top of our universe and are still there today. </blockquote><br><br>The above copy is taken from Christian Geology Ministry My initial impression was that this would be a good addition to this topical study. However after reading it more thoroughly I recognize that some of the views expressed are controversial. When I looked into the background of the author I discovered more controversy. So these views do not necessarily reflect the Highway Staff.<br><br><br>Wes<br><br>

Hi Wes,<br><br>Wow, this is very cool. <br><br>I've got a couple of questions for you but I've had quite a day, just getting home from work. My thoughts are not transferring to the page very well, I know because I've retyped this about a bazillion times. More tomorrow, and thanks again..I'm going to reread the Flood account. <br><br>Blessings,<br><br>Hannahsmom