Friends, I have a situation I don't know how to deal with!
Last year my wife was asked to serve as a deacon (at our PCUSA church) and she declined to do the job after talking with me about it. She didn't tell the church the reason she declined was because I was opposed to it; she told them she didn't have time (she'd just started a new job and had a good bit of evening work).
I knew the situation would happen again this year, and I asked her this morning what was she going to say when asked. Her response: "That's between me and God!" End of conversation. I knew something was up.
Lo, this morning she was indeed approached about whether she would serve as an elder or deacon if asked. She said she'd serve as a deacon if elected. She later told me in the car on the way home that she wanted a way to have something to do for the church and she felt ready to handle the responsibilities.
I reminded her: that there had been a call for someone to teach the children's Sunday School class over a year ago and she didn't do it (even though she loves teaching children!);
that she has been to only two women's circle meetings in the last two years and asked if that says anything to her about her interest in the people of the church;
that she refuses to set aside Wednesday night as a time she won't work so she can fulfill the commitment she already made to being in the choir (she now has full control over her night schedule);
that I am opposed to her serving in this capacity, that I don't believe in it.
I did *not* remind her I'm the head of the household nor forbid her to do it. I don't like having that sort of trump card in relationship situations, but I'm leaning toward using it now.
My feelings are hurt because she didn't discuss her decision with me beforehand. I think it's a decision we both should make. But I know she didn't talk to me about it because she wants to do it and she already knows how I feel- she simply avoided any opportunity for disagreement from me (temporarily).
**More importantly,** I don't think the church should elect her to a position I am opposed to her holding. What are the things I should try to *calmly* say to my wife? to my church, if anything? And what do I do if either one ignores me altogether?!!!
Also, is there a good article or resource here/elsewhere that would help us? Many gracious thanks! Cecil
Our prayers are with your family in this situation. It appears there are several things going on here.
First, judge yourself and pray and ask God to show you any shortcomings regarding your communication(s) and relationship with your wife. Apparently, your wife has decided, knowing how you feel, to not to obey the voice of her husband. There must be a reason why? PLEASE NOTE: I am not saying that you have done anything wrong, but something someplace is amiss.
Second, go to your wife and ask her if you have offended her in any way. Ask the question WHY she desired to make this decision without your (1) knowledge (2) blessings. Really listen to her answers.
Though the issue about not being qualified to serve as a deacon is VERY important (and IMHO Scripture says women should not serve in this office) it is not the MOST important issue going on here.
We will be in prayer for you and your family concerning this.
In reply to:Friends, I have a situation I don't know how to deal with!
Last year my wife was asked to serve as a deacon (at our PCUSA church) and she declined to do the job after talking with me about it.
Obvioulsy now your wife is not in agreement with your view on this topic. First go to the Scriptures and be sure you know what you believe and why. I have two questions for you.
1. Didn't you know you were attending a church that goes against the teaching of Scripture regarding requirements for office bearers? Surely you were exposed to this practice while attending this church. Weren't you uncomfortable with this practice and the teaching in this church.
2. How did your discussion with your wife go regarding your position on women office bearers? Did you show her what the Scripture teaches? Was this issue resolved at this time and she later changed her position or didn't she agree with you right from the get go?
The rest of your post tells me that you have some thoughts about where your wife could or should be serving in the church but it appears that she either doesn't agree with you, doesn't understand your position, or both.
In reply to:]What are the things I should try to *calmly* say to my wife? to my church, if anything? And what do I do if either one ignores me altogether?!!!
First of all know what you believe and communicate it to your wife and then to the elders. It's a bit more difficult now that she's been elected to the office of deacon. However unless you make it clear that Scripture opposes this practice and that you will not allow her to serve in this capacity you've failed as the spiritual leader in your home. I would find it very difficult to remain a member in a church that allows this practice.
In reply to:Also, is there a good article or resource here/elsewhere that would help us?
Dear Cecil,<br><br><br> Joe and Wes have really asked you some very pertinent and important questions that I was wondering myself. Surely you had thought about this before and had either given up convincing you're wife or were just avoiding the issue in hopes that it would go away!!!!! But now the time has come to face it. Be strong in your convictions, ready to defend by Scripture, and sit your wife down and discuss it with her in no uncertain terms. That does not mean in an angry way, just a firm, head of the household and responsible to God, way.<br><br> Our prayers will be with you, that she may respond as a true Christian wife, that this may be a blessed and God-fearing issue, resolved by the Spirit through Scripture.<br><br> In His Hands,<br><br>Ruth
Wes<br><br>Those are some very good suggestions; however are you aware that the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood doesn't have a problem with women in the office of deacon? What they have a problem with are women in the office of elder.<br>They are also very careful about separating the offices of deacons and elders, because many Churches that allow women deacons and not women elders. In actuality have their deacons doing the responsibilities of the elder.<br><br>Tom
The office of deacon is practiced in most churches as a position of authority. In most churches they vote in the Council meetings along with the elders and have many decision making responsibilities regarding leadership issues in the church. When this is true there is no room for women serving in this position according to the Scriptures.
If you carefully identify and seperate the work of deacons as the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood suggests I think you could meet the Biblical criteria. However I've not seen this in practice. Let's face it we are all called to be servants, both men and women. Even without the "title" we can follow the example of our Lord into servanthood and be involved in a ministry of mercy. It's when you place someone in that "office" the position and its function needs to be defined according to God's word.
Wes
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
In reply to:[color:"blue"]It's when you place someone in that "office" the position and its function needs to be defined according to God's word.
And there's the rub isn't it? Can the PCUSA do things according to the Word of God? Or will they just go down that gentle slope further and further to perdition?
Sorry Wes but I am getting so bloody tired of the ones that make it up as they go along. I'll stop ranting now and go back to my cave.
In reply to:And there's the rub isn't it? Can the PCUSA do things according to the Word of God? Or will they just go down that gentle slope further and further to perdition?
Sorry Wes but I am getting so bloody tired of the ones that make it up as they go along. I'll stop ranting now and go back to my cave.
Don't apologize for expressing your concern that our churches conform to the Word of God. I hope our friend Cecil discerns God's will for him and his wife and their relationship with the PCUSA.
Wes
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
Wes I would agree with you that the office of deacon as practiced in most churches is a position of authority. I would also agree with you that the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood does indeed separate these criteria. However, as I read Scripture, especially in 1Tim. Chapter 3, it talks about the "office of deacon" and unless I am misreading it, I see no Scripture warrant for women in the "office of deacon".
I have personally corresponded with the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and they told me that they believe that it is ok for women to be in the "office of deacon". They also believe that the NASB has the correct rendering of the Greek in 1Tim. 3:11, instead of the word "wives" as versions like the KJV, the Greek translates it "women". They believe that this gives warrant for women in the "office of deacon".
All of us whether women or men are called to be servants, but I don't believe that this is the same as being in the "office of deacon".
Do you see any warrant for women to be in the “office of deacon”?
In reply to:Do you see any warrant for women to be in the “office of deacon”?
In one word, no. Specifically for the reasons I've already mentioned. In our churches today the "office" of deacon would have to be defined as a leadership role based on how it functions. Women are not to hold leadership positions in the church. (See I Timothy 2)
In reply to:I have personally corresponded with the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood and they told me that they believe that it is ok for women to be in the "office of deacon".
They also believe that the NASB has the correct rendering of the Greek in 1Tim. 3:11, instead of the word "wives" as versions like the KJV, the Greek translates it "women". They believe that this gives warrant for women in the "office of deacon".
I hadn't heard I Timothy 3:11 interpreted to mean "women" instead of "wives" before and I'd question how women can fulfill the requirements listed in verse 12.
"Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well." (I Timothy 3:12)
Wes
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
thanks so much for your insights and prayers with us in this matter! Now, the update.......
I read and reread many Scriptures, read and reread many commentaries (online and off) that were suggested here and by others, prayed and prayed some more, encouraged my wife to do the same things, and then we had a talk.
It was a good discussion. One result is that she does not want to serve as a deacon, but is going to make a commitment in another area of service. She did, though, leave it to me to call the appropriate person to tell them the news, which I gladly did.
Another result of the conversation is that we are now asking God to help us find another church. (In our area the PCA has become so loaded with older, unreformed Baptists running from contemporary services that it's going to be hard to find a church that rests squarely on the five points, I think.)
By the way, I didn't dismiss the call to "check myself" that came early on in this thread. I needed to hear that, and now have a list of things I want to pray over and meditate upon for quite a while.
So, a happy conclusion to this situation, and a needed renewal of the search for God's will for us. Many thanks for the help, folks!
You get no argument from me about women not being able to fulfill what is in verse 12. My understanding is that the Greek can be translated either "wives" or "women" depending on context. The people at the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood official position is that the context does show "women" and that is why they believe it is ok for women to be "deacons". They do this because they don't see the "office of deacon" as an authority position.
However, in my opinion the contexts of the verses do not warrant their understanding. However that said, there are a lot of respectable theologians and pastors that disagree with me on that.
I am glad we agree with each other on this topic [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile[/img]
Dear Cecil,<br><br>I'm sincerely glad to hear that you and your wife have spent time in prayer over this matter and are now in harmony with God's Word. It sounds as if you have really made progress in this area. May God bless your efforts to find a church home which is also faithful to His Word.<br><br><br>Wes
When I survey the wondrous cross on which the Prince of Glory died, my richest gain I count but loss and pour contempt on all my pride. - Isaac Watts
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