Originally Posted by Skarlet
Freedom of Religion has to do with government tolerance toward various beliefs. In the time we are speaking of, people were executed or run out of town for their beliefs. That is the opposite of the "freedom of religion" that America is founded on.
The power of the state during that period of history is irrelevant to the issue at hand. The power of the "keys of the kingdom", given to the Church, by Christ is what is relevant. As I have stated at least once before, the Arminians were ordained office bearers in the Reformed Church. They were aware of that church's polity in regard to doctrinal disputes and followed the procedure in presenting their "Remonstrance". They were also well aware of the possible consequences should their views be found heretical.

Originally Posted by Skarlet
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
There is no "tolerance" when it comes to anything which is contrary to the Word of God.
Non-tolerance, in this case, was taking people out of leadership, exiling them, and death. Taking people out of leadership for disagree is fair. Exiling and death, though, is over-board. If you dislike THAT type of tolerance, then why don't you just promote the murder of everyone who disagrees with you about any doctrine, eh?
The "sword" belongs to the civil government; not the Church. It is given to the Church to excommunicate (declaration that one's profession of faith is fallacious due to unrepentant sins and/or doctrine), to defrock ordained office bearers, and for the general membership to disfellowship with those judged by the Church to be found guilty of serious and unrepentant sins. Again, you cannot conflate the authority of the State and that of the Church. America is not the paradigm to which everyone in world history must conform.

Originally Posted by Skarlet
Originally Posted by Pilgrim
What the Arminians brought to the table was damnable heresy...
You seem to be saying that to be saved from a hell, a person NOT ONLY has to believe in Christ as Lord and Savior, but ALSO has to agree with Calvinism?

And those who reject Calvinism, therefore, are going to hell?

I just don't see that requirement in the Bible. You have yet to show me one thing in those 5 articles which state a lack of faith in Christ as Lord and Savior.

You remind me of the type of churches that think that ONLY the members of their congregations (rather than born-again believers in general) are going to heaven. smile
1. What I am saying is that one has to possess a true faith in the biblical Christ in order to be saved. An alleged faith in false christ serves no purpose other than to justify one's damnation. Idols cannot save. Non-Reformed theologies hold to a different Christ than Calvinism. You do the math. grin

2. I/we do not hold to "doctrinal salvation", i.e., one is saved on the basis of assenting to right doctrine. However, one is not saved without right doctrine either. As an example, one cannot be saved if one denies the Trinity, as stated in the Athanasian Creed, Article 44: "This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved." Arminianism and semi-Pelagianism and all other religions reject the Doctrines of Grace, aka: Calvinism. The God described in Calvinism is rejected, the Christ upheld in Calvinism is rejected, the Holy Spirit espoused in Calvinism is rejected, the Gospel held by Calvinism is rejected. Either the doctrines of Calvinism are true and thus all who reject it are false believers, Or... the reverse is true. Again, you do the math.

3. Membership in any congregation is no evidence nor guarantee of salvation. There are many professed Calvinists who are unregenerate; members and office bearers alike, and who are destined to eternal Hell unless God grants them repentance and faith in Christ.

4. Lastly, I/we hold that there are some who profess Arminian doctrines inconsistently with what they truly believe in their heart, i.e., there is a disconnect between the head and the heart. However, when the Spirit sends one to expose this inconsistency and explain to them the truth of the Scriptures, they will repent of what they once confessed and embrace the one true biblical God and HIS way of salvation. (cf. Ps 135:10-18; Isa 30:8-13; Jer 6:16,17; Hos. 4:6ff; Matt 10:13-15; 11:25-27; Mk 4:10-12, 6:11; Jh 12:37-40; 1Thess 4:1,8; et al)


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simul iustus et peccator

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