The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum N.T. Wright

I would be deeply concerned that your pastor is even reading someone like N.T. Wright for any other reason other than to familiarize himself with the man's heretical teachings in order to recognize it should it make an entrance through any of the members of guests at the church.

Keller really likes N.T. Wright's book because he is sympathetic to his views on hell, which are very similar to those held by C.S. Lewis. Tim Keller is another individual whose writings I wouldn't be too quick to read either.

As to for if you should be doing anything more... Personally, I would desire to have a serious sit-down chat with the pastor. Asking pointed questions would be my goal. Some of the questions I might want to get answers for might be:

1. Why the interest in N.T. Wright, especially when you (the pastor) know he embraces damnable heresy in the matter of the doctrine of justification?

2. Did you (the pastor) find yourself agreeing with and sharing Wright's understanding and application of Christ's resurrection in his book?

3. Do you (the pastor) also share Wright's and Keller's views on hell?

4. What other books have you read by N.T. Wright? And what is your assessment of them?

These are some of the more salient questions I would want to ask. And, no doubt I would have to ask what your pastor's views are in regard to N.T. Wright's "Second-Temple Judaism", his doctrine of justification, and what he thinks of Federal Vision.

Personally, I would be making long-range plans, perhaps short-range plans, to find another church. I suspect that his reading of this one book is not the first indication of his delving into unorthodox writings.

The answer to this is clearly indicated in muchforgiven's latest reply. Sometimes (for me most always) instinct (the Holy Spirit's witness) is to be preferred over what some might want to call 'caution'. It all sounds so lofty and 'Christ-like', but in the end the destruction of the Church results. Look at how Federal Vision has flourished due to those in power not having the strength or perhaps even wisdom to have dealt strongly with the individuals promoting it at the beginning!! It has been YEARS and all that has really happened is a few statements that disparage this damnable heresy.

Isn't this rather contradictory to what you have already said, i.e., we shouldn't jump to conclusions about someone reading N.T. Wright's book and even recommending it to his congregation? Just the fact that the book was written by N.T. Wright should send up myriad red flags and stir up serious questions as to this man's thinking. You may want to give such a person the benefit of the doubt, but not I. Something is terribly wrong and I wouldn't hesitate to find out what is going on KNOWING that if he recommended such a book by such an well-known author, this is bad.

For general information only given the assumption that Im not too far out of the norm;

I had heard of Wright enough to know he is opposed to popular rapture teachings.

I've never read any of his work.

I've never heard anything negative about him until this thread.

Pilgrim

I am not sure that I am communicating properly.
I am not trying to give anyone the benefit of the doubt. I agree with you that the fact that a book by NT Wright is being recommended is enough to send huge red flags up. Even if it could be substantiated that the particular book recommended is biblical, it is still irresponsible of an elder to recommend a book by a false teacher. This is something that he will have to answer for.
That being said, I do know that pastor’s are not perfect and therefore if they error; it is when they are confronted with the truth, that the true condition of their heart is revealed.
I believe that it could be beneficial to go to the pastor himself in order to show our concerns.
The last Church I belonged to I did just that and while it did not change anyone's mind, it certainly did solidify what I needed to do and that was find a different Church.
Personally speaking, as someone who wants to be involved in the local Church and who cares about the local Church. I wanted to make certain that I did everything I could to make my concerns known. Only after I became certain that I couldn't do anything about the road this pastor was taking, did I leave.
Not everyone is going to be comfortable enough to do what I did, because it certainly was not easy. However, by doing a little homework and prayer, it shouldn’t be out of the question for most Christians.
Understand that I am not saying what I did, is necessarily the way to go in all cases.

Tom

I just spent the past hour reading book reviews on NT Wright's book 'Surprised by Hope'. I feel dirty , not only were all of them positive reviews, even those who disagree with NPP didn't have any major disagreement with the book.

If you know of any reviews done on this book that are not so complementary, I would very much like to read them.

Tom

Tom,

I already posted two reviews, albeit positive ones of Surprised by Hope, because they openly and clearly showed some of the errors held and taught by Wright. You can review them HERE. And, I did provide a negative review by Jay Adams; brief as it is but certainly critical and rightly so which you can find HERE.

Now, are you REALLY surprised by all the positive reviews of the writings of N.T. Wright? This is the current state of the Church, particularly the Reformed segment of it. And, I strongly suspect that things are going to get MUCH worse before and IF they get better. Truth is not determined by popularity or numbers.

1 Corinthians 11:18-19 (ASV) "For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that divisions exist among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also factions among you, that they that are approved may be made manifest among you."

1 John 2:19 (ASV) "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they all are not of us."

Pilgrim

Maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but I am. Particularly with the fact that it took years to even find a Reformed Church to worship at.
In my case if my Church starts to buy into this mess, I don't have an alternative.

Tom

So, are you implying that IF the pastor/elders of your current church started toying with or embracing NPP you would remain there because there aren't any other acceptable (biblical) churches in the area where you live? And IF, that is the case, would a paedobaptist church not be included as an alternative? Just curious.

No a NPP Church would not be acceptable to me.
Yes a paedobaptist Church would be acceptable with me. However, I have already checked out that in the past and the only paedobaptist churches are the CRC Church that supports ministries like Crystal Cathedral and a Presbyterian Church that has a woman pastor.

Understand that although a credobaptist Church is preferable, I am not one that believes this matter should be a determining factor.
I realize that there are credobaptists that would disagree with me; but that is ok with me.

By the way, when I said that in my last post I was not thinking of NPP. For I doubt even Tim Keller would embrace that heresy.
What I was referring to is the nonsense that Keller and some like him are into.

I thought I would let you know that today after service, I was talking to a friend that is a deacon in the Church and he told me that he also has some huge concerns with some of the teaching and practices that he is seeing in some Reformed circles. When I told him about the things that I have uncovered about Tim Keller; he told me that he agrees with me and what I said only confirms his suspicions.
This is quite a relief to me, because my friend and I often go for coffee together with the pastor where we discuss theology and things concerning the Church. The pastor has told us that he really appreciates us for our friendship and our openness to him. Especially considering this is his first head pastor-ship and the needs of the Church are at times overwhelming.
I have found this friendship with my friend and my pastor, to be a great way to keep each other accountable.

I was not aware of any controversy surrounding Tim Keller. What is this about?
It is clearly a time for great spiritual discernment