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#22127
Sat Feb 19, 2005 6:38 PM
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,025 Likes: 274
Head Honcho
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Head Honcho
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 15,025 Likes: 274 |
flunky1 said: Hmmm, the precise manner in which the Holy Spirit witnesses to our spirit is what I've been trying to ascertain in this discussion... For me, parts (a) and (c) constitute part (b), so long as (c) arises from agape love. I believe that the "witnessing of the Spirit to our Spirit" is a combination of 1) emotive impressions and 2) the fruit of the Spirit working in that individual's life. To suggest that "(c) arises from agape love", only begs the question, doesn't it? How is one to discern whether that "love" perceived is 1) genuine and/or 2) "agape" in nature? I think this simply throws us back to the original question, re: assurance. Flunky1 then asked: Anyway, you have raised another interesting issue. Do you believe that God enables any man to infallibly know anything? IF you mean by "infallible" a perfect knowledge, then I would have to say, "No!". IF, on the other hand, you mean unwavering certainty; confidence that what is known is true, then my answer would be, "Yes!".  Only God possesses infallible knowledge since all that God "knows" flows from His immutable and eternal will; He knows because He has ordained it. But as for us, our certainty of knowledge, much like this matter of assurance is dependent upon several factors. Take for example how the Apostle John links both assurance and knowledge together here: 1 John 2:3-5 (ASV) "And hereby we know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoso keepeth his word, in him verily hath the love of God been perfected. Hereby we know that we are in him:"
1 John 3:14 (ASV) "We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not abideth in death."
And he also declares that assurance is based upon the propositional truths of God as He has revealed them in His Word: 1 John 3:19-21 (ASV) "Hereby shall we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our heart before him: because if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, we have boldness toward God;"
1 John 5:18-19 (ASV) "We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that was begotten of God keepeth himself, and the evil one toucheth him not. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in the evil one."
And finally, he says that our assurance and knowledge is found not only in propositional truth, but also through the ministry of the Holy Spirit within: 1 John 5:20 (ASV) "And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life."
Upon those 3 elements, both assurance and the certainty that the knowledge we have is true rests. In His Grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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Assurance of Salvation
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li0scc0
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Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:57 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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gotribe
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Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:28 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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li0scc0
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Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:38 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Pilgrim
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Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:07 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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li0scc0
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Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:10 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Pilgrim
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Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:37 PM
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li0scc0
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Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:50 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Pilgrim
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Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:02 PM
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MarieP
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Tue Feb 15, 2005 10:13 PM
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thredj
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Tue Mar 15, 2005 4:08 AM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Pilgrim
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Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:07 AM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:43 AM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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J_Edwards
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Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:23 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:34 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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gotribe
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Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:21 PM
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:25 PM
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Pilgrim
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Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:50 PM
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Anonymous
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 12:54 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Pilgrim
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:44 PM
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Anonymous
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:15 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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MarieP
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:40 PM
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Pilgrim
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:01 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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MarieP
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Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:08 PM
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:13 PM
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Pilgrim
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:46 PM
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:44 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:22 PM
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:21 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:38 PM
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:19 PM
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:07 AM
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Pilgrim
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:34 AM
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:38 AM
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:01 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Peter
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Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:31 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:02 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:35 PM
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Anonymous
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Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:22 PM
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Pilgrim
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Sun Feb 20, 2005 7:47 PM
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Tom
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Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:12 PM
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J_Edwards
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Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:06 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Anonymous
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Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:13 AM
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Luther and James ....
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J_Edwards
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Mon Feb 21, 2005 2:44 PM
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Anonymous
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Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:11 PM
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J_Edwards
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Anonymous
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Tue Feb 22, 2005 11:42 AM
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J_Edwards
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:52 AM
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J_Edwards
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Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:20 AM
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Anonymous
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Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:26 PM
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Re: Luther and James ....
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Pilgrim
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:07 AM
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Re: Luther and James ....
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Anonymous
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Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:10 AM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Anonymous
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Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:34 AM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Pilgrim
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Mon Feb 21, 2005 3:55 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Anonymous
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Mon Feb 21, 2005 6:33 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Pilgrim
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Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:33 PM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:56 AM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:35 AM
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Re: Assurance of Salvation
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Anonymous
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Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:45 AM
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