I am sure Pilgrim and CovenantInBlood will respond to the appropriate sections of this. I will merely say a few words directly and indirectly pointed my direction by the incense of the ECM
promoters here.
BrimstonePreacha states,
I'm actually going to skip the Leonard Sweet comments because I don't know him and I haven't read his stuff. I have read the article I've linked to with my original post (of which I'm sure everyone on this thread has read and carefully considered) and a few things by McLaren and a blurb or two from a few others, as I said, I haven't looked at all this as in depth as I'm sure each and every one of you have.
This is “one” of the problems with those in the ECM, they “haven't looked at all this as in depth.” They have not looked at the end from the beginning. They have not studied the scholars of the movement (Luke 6:39). They haven’t studied history. They don’t understand that their faith may become shipwreck! (1 Timothy 1:19). If one merely looks at the results of mysticism in history he can foretell the end of the ECM. The mystic denies objectivity in God's revelation. They would hold that no one can really know God with any certainty. It makes God and His providence to be always unknowable. To the mystic there is no certain purpose to anything. We must just accept things in our ignorance. This is
McLaren and the ECM in a nutshell and the definition of mysticism in history.
A great mass of people moving in a certain direction (ECM), doesn’t make it the right direction (i.e. think of Noah’s day). Narrow is the road Luke (Matthew 7:13-14). If anything it should give one apprehension. IMO many in the Church are moving in the direction of ECM because of three basic reasons: (1) it is the present direction of the spirit of the Antichrist, (2) the naturalistic, atheistic secularism taught in our educational institutions and liberal churches leaves people spiritually hungry and secular humanism cannot satisfy man’s spiritual longings. Thus, individuals embrace New Age mysticism in order to attempt to fill this spiritual vacuum, (3) the non-speaking, non-directive, non-judgmental god of New Age thought allows sinful man to pursue his lusts without guilt and without fear. The New Age concept of god leaves man autonomous. A concept of god without moral absolutes. A god who will not judge sin and wickedness. (
Atheism, New Age Mysticism, vs. Biblical Christianity).
Thus in the ECM mindset you state,
I seem to recall something about judging not lest I be judged but you are older and you desire the position of or claim the position of overseer so I trust that as an older brother to a younger brother you're not trying to quarrel and I trust that you aren't writing with a craving for controversy and quarrels about words (I Timothy 3 & 6). Because I am sure that you and these other older brothers are not out at all for controversy or for quarrels or any of that, I'd have to agree, the devil isn't stupid, he's just stubborn.
You recall the verse, but you go too far with its definition. You failed to mention that the Church and its elders are to “righteously judge” (Deuteronomy 16:18; John 7:24). If there be no judgment at all then the Church is without discipline. However, the three marks of the
true Church are: (1) the pure preaching of the Word of God as sound doctrine, (2) the lawful administration of the sacraments, and (3) the exercise of Church discipline pressing a holiness of life and obedience to the Word preached and taught. Thus, you have just announced for all to see that the ECM is
not the true Church. If we understand McLaren the Word of God cannot be interpreted with certainty. Thus, again we have another mark of the true Church dismissed with the signature of this New Prophet’s pen. Without the authority of the Word of God, there may be no right administration of the sacraments. Thus, with the non-judgment attitude of the ECM it declares itself
not to be the true Church!
Moreover, the Scripture clearly states, "
mark them that are causing the divisions and occasions of stumbling,
contrary to the doctrine which ye learned: and turn away from them" (Romans 16:17). Part of the duty of any Christian and especially the leaders of the Church is to protect the body from false doctrine (1 Timothy 1:3-4, 4:6-7, 6:3-5; 2 Timothy 4:3; Titus 1:9, 2:6-8) and
mark the leaders and followers of such heretical movements so they will
not, "beguile the hearts of the innocent" (Romans 16:18). Thus, in concert with the Word of God, heretics and those that hold to, promote, and defend their teachings will be
marked here.
The ECM is of a spirit, but
not the Holy Spirit. Will they incorporate some “good” in their movement? Of course, every cult does. They may feed the poor and meet other physical needs, the Mormons do too. They have counselors and attempt to meet the emotional needs of individuals, so does Hinduism. Cultic good is not biblical good! It is not for the glory of God alone and thus it is but ”a corrupt good.”
While the true Church could do much more (and should be encouraged to do more), in both of the above areas, it does not necessitate the need of joining a cult to do something. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/idea.gif" alt="" />
