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Brother Luke, I must first express my dismay over the "path" which you have evidently chosen to travel, which is a path away from the "old paths" (Jer 6:16). There is so much that I could comment on in what you have written in this response and your longer previous one that it would take more time than I have available to me. Thus I will simply make my comments brief and direct. 1) Your overview of mankind is contrary to that which God tells us. In His infallible Word, we are told that the whole world is under the influence and power of the Evil One. (Eph 2:2; 1Jh 5:19) And further, there is an innate hatred of God and toward all those who love Him and seek to live before Him in pure holiness and righteousness. Though unregenerate men will find some of the virtues of Christians commendable, particularly where they are benefited from them, they are certainly not drawn to God because of them. 2) This truth leads to this second point which is that NO ONE seeks God. (Job 21:15, 16; Rom 3:10; 8:7, 8; 1Cor 2:14) Men are NOT drawn to Christ because of how one lives out their lives, although admittedly, men's natural hatred of God and Christ is increased by observing the hypocrisy of professing Christians who live not according to the law of God. What you have expressed as being most lacking in the Church today, e.g., failure to feed the hungry, care for the poor, etc., and which if done would surely bring more into the kingdom is not anything new. It's an old heresy which had its heyday earlier in the last century and which was best known as "Incarnation Theology". It was the Liberals who foisted this error on the world, but particularly on the Church and who taught that men will come to know God when they see "Jesus in you" through your "good work" expressed in the reaching out to the poor, etc., socially. (cf. 2Tim 3:12) 3) Like the Liberals of yesterday, the Emerging Church Movement has cast off the objective truths of Scripture, aka: doctrine, and opted for a more subjective view of God thus making truth something relative, pragmatic and situational. Conformity to either a system of dogma or a set of rules which govern one's actions is not only unnecessary, so we are told, but debilitating to the furtherance of true religion. To them, faith comes by the observation of actions expressed, e.g., kindness, sacrifice, tolerance, giving, etc. However, the Scriptures speak otherwise. What we read in Scripture is that faith comes through the preaching of the objective truth concerning God, Christ, man, judgment, etc. (cf. Rom 1:16; 10:8-11, 13-17; 1Cor 1:17, 18; 2Cor 2:17; Heb 4:12, 13). 4) Reliance on outward programs, expressions of social concern which the world deems laudable, worldly methodologies, psychological influences, etc., etc., ad nauseam to build the church (increase numbers) is a fallacy and in essence a reliance upon man rather than God. Those who do so, e.g., the Emerging Church Movement, Church Growth Movement, et al, are no different than those who built the tower of Babel. Through their own efforts; through uniting together in a common cause, they thought they could reach heaven (God) and thus accomplish the ultimate goal and unite the entire human race. Genesis 11:1-9 (ASV) And the whole earth was of one language and of one speech. And it came to pass, as they journeyed east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. And they said one to another, Come, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar. And they said, Come, let us build us a city, and a tower, whose top [may reach] unto heaven, and let us make us a name; lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. And Jehovah came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And Jehovah said, Behold, they are one people, and they have all one language; and this is what they begin to do: and now nothing will be withholden from them, which they purpose to do. Come, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. So Jehovah scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off building the city. Therefore was the name of it called Babel; because Jehovah did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did Jehovah scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
But it is the Lord Christ Who is building His Church through HIS means; the preaching of the Gospel and thus calling men to repentance and faith. Men are being called OUT OF this world and INTO a Kingdom not made with men's hands, ideas or efforts. It is by the power of the Spirit that men are called, renewed and transformed into the image of Christ. The Church of the Living Christ is decidedly something different than anything in this corrupt world. Offering an environment which emulates the world to attract those of this world only serves to keep men in their sins and allow them to continue in their rebellion against God. The Church must show forth the glory of God which is totally contrary to everything in this world. It is to be different; not similar or the same as the world. Offering that which the world loves and already possesses is NOT what the Church is to do. Rather, it is to call men to separation from the world. (cf. 1Jh 2:15, 16) 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (ASV) "Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what portion hath a believer with an unbeliever? And what agreement hath a temple of God with idols? for we are a temple of the living God; even as God said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore Come ye out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, And touch no unclean thing; And I will receive you, And will be to you a Father, And ye shall be to me sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."
I adjure you, Brother Luke, consider seriously the path you are now traveling before you are totally lost and cannot find your way back to the "Old Paths" which lead to eternal life. (Matt 7:13, 14) In His grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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The Emerging Church on Nightline
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D.J.
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Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:31 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Wes
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Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:50 AM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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D.J.
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Sun Jan 15, 2006 3:59 AM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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CovenantInBlood
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Sun Jan 15, 2006 6:37 AM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Adopted
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Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:06 AM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Peter
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Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:26 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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doulos
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:57 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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D.J.
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Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:39 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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janean
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Wed Jan 18, 2006 1:20 AM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:14 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:20 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:00 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Adopted
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 5:52 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:01 PM
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Rational discussion gone to the dogs
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Paul_S
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 9:54 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Adopted
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:56 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:29 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Anonymous
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Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:10 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 4:22 AM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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D.J.
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:42 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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BrimstonePreacha
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Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:50 AM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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doulos
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Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:29 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:52 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Anonymous
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 4:56 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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J_Edwards
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:19 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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BrimstonePreacha
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:16 AM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Adopted
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Anonymous
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:52 PM
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D.J.
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:20 PM
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Wes
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:46 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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BrimstonePreacha
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 6:47 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:50 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:22 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Tom
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Thu Jan 26, 2006 1:45 AM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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janean
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Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:07 AM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Anonymous
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Thu Feb 02, 2006 5:15 PM
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Pilgrim
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Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:49 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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doulos
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Thu Feb 02, 2006 8:22 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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doulos
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Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:09 AM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Pilgrim
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Sat Feb 04, 2006 4:26 AM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:54 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:41 PM
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Re: The Emerging Church on Nightline
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:19 PM
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