<<After debating with some Catholics for quite some time I agreed to read up on the other side of the debate - I think every protestant should read this book by Karl Keating.>>


AJC,

There are several problems here.

Three points.

1) Only the full consensus of the Church Fathers is authoritative for Catholics from the time of Trent on, it was never the total consensus. From a short time before that the Church Fathers were hidden from practically everyone in the mid-late middle ages. Their rediscovery by Catholic Priests like Jan Hus and Martin Luther and Huldrych Zwingli and seminary student Jean Chauvin (John Calvin) was the real cause of the Reformation and not simony or the Inquisition – both Catholics and Protestants loved money and lands and both burned those they disagreed with at the stake.

2) The terms used for the real presence by both Reformers and Catholics were interchangeable before the Council of Trent. Luther – consubstantiality, Calvin – substantiality and Trent - transubstantiation. Notice substance in all of these. Real and substantially recreated again by the power of God and NOT man, the unbloody sacrifice made present again. The bloody sacrifice was on Calvary once for all. Prior to Trent those three terms and 25 more for a total of 28 were all acceptable.

3) Neither Karl Keating nor Scott Hahn nor any of the other of the post Vatican II novus ordo Tubingen ultra liberal protestant higher critical pantheistic evolutionary theist uninspired type of argumentists have any recognition due to them as Christian or Catholic or Theologically Orthodox in any sense.

Ps. 118:1 Give praise to the Lord, for he is good: for his mercy endureth for ever.