Yeah! And I would not have you think that I subscribe to just "let go and let God," in any sense that we are mere automatons (hate that term). I subscribe to something that I do not think contradicts you. I would say it like this. We are passive participants in our sanctification. You are quite correct that it is the Spirit that enables us to perservere. And, that is exactly what I mean by passive participant. We do the repenting, that is true, just as we do the believing, but it is not without the will and the power of Christ who lives in us.

When Jesus said that if we believe we have eternal life, the word is, if I understand it correctly, an on going and future sense. The term used earlier in John for received is similar and indicates both passive and active receiving. We do the believing, but it is His faith in us by which we believe. He gives and by that gift we receive. Repentence also is a gift.

What confuses young believers, and unbelievers alike is what the Scripture describes as the two becoming one flesh. It is He in us and we in Him and He in the Father, so that we are all together in one place. That meaning, that there is no such thing as not perservering in the Faith for a believer.

You are right, the ideal is that what is inside the cup should be reflected by what is outside. But the inside has already been cleaned, "You are already clean by the word that I have spoken to you." There is no more cleaning of the inside of the cup that has to be done, it has been done for us in Christ. The only thing that is being cleansed is the outside. This is what is confusing for most. When the Scripture commands that we put to death the flesh, most try to do it by the flesh. When we put the flesh to death by the Spirit, then it is He who does it. What we must realize is that we are commanded to make the outside of the cup clean, but it is he who decides what gets cleansed. This by no means means that we can be slothful, or caloused in regard to sin. That would indeed indicate that we have not the Spirit. Our reaction to sin should be grief, the same grief that the Holy Spirit has.

I would invite you to visit David and the Psalms. The freedom that we have does not come from the cleanliness of the out side of the cup. Rather, it comes from what the Lord has declared is on the inside. As to outward appearance, it is not the outside of the cup the Hall of Famers of Hebrews 11 were commended for. They were commended for perservering in the Faith inspite of what evidence appeared on the outside.

I have heard this many times, that the outside is indicative of the inside and I am always reminded of the sinner in the temple. The Pharisee looks at the outside and judges wrongly. I do not believe that there are no changes in a believer, but if we reduce our sanctification to what we can see, we will find ourselve again in bondage to the flesh, now excusing, no accusing.

Luther's quote is indeed appropriate. I think, however, that he would agree that our sanctification is complete and being worked out in time. I have a burden for those who think they are something and are not. I have seen the discrimination that is fostered by programmed teaching in the Church, namely things like Experiencing God, Master Life, Spiritual Warfare, that all lead to a false spiritual vs carnal Christianity. I do not deny that there are those who act carnally. It is always amazing how those who think they are spiritual respond to their carnal brothers, carnally, especially after they have gone through one of those exercises.

Perserverance is not marked by whether we continue in sanctifcation, that is, the the discipline of the flesh. Paul said to Timothy, bodily exercise profits little. It is marked by whether we are saved in eternity, and that we know by the Spirit in us. It is not a question of whether or not the Spirit is in us. We either know, or we do not.

Seventh Day Adventists find themselves in doubt about this always. The question whether or not they are caught up on their confession and repentance. Leviticus clues us in on a very important principle in the openning chapters. There we find that the Jews we held guilty of even the sins that they did not know that they had committed. The problem with judging by our behavior is that we do not know if we are perservering or not by that standard. It is not the the Jews under the law were without culpability for unknown sins, they had to perform sacrifices for them even if they did not know. The same is true of us, though we are not under the Law, a sacrifice has already been made for us. It by no means bifucates or even denies our responsibility, it in fact requires it. For we are his disciples if indeed we suffer with him.

I do not know if this helps. I think we are on the same page except for a few of the letters are blurred.

In any case, thank you for your welcome and the gentle heart that you display in your responses.

I have no clue as to how to get around on these here new fangled puters. Maybe you could give me some references or helps to how you import quotes and edit and so forth. These little windows are really hard to move around in! Any good sites that might help me learn what all these buttons do!