JoeK said,
I agree Joe. But it does not say let someone else examine you...
So, you think NEW converts are MATURE enough to examine themselves FULLY and they do NOT need the rest of the body of Christ. Where did these NEW converts get all this knowledge and maturity from? How did they instantly discover how to interpret Scripture?
New professors are not instantly mature (Eph. 4:11-15; Rom. 16:17; 1 Tim. 4:1, 16, etc.). Note the text does NOT say you are to examine yourself ALONE? The tools for correctly examining oneself come from a proper application of the Word of God, prayer, etc. which a new convert has not been taught. Thus, we are to examine ourselves within the context of learning from community – Galatians 6:1-6; 2 Timothy 2:24-26, etc. Any new convert – who is truly converted – would invite such an opportunity to insure their faith was right with God. Examining yourself in accordance with Scripture only means that you yourself are responsible for your decision(s) and are responsible for taking actions, etc., but it no way means you are suppose to be the lone ranger and not seek godly counsel, instruction, and “obey” them that have the rule over you, etc. (Gal. 6:1-6, Heb. 13:17, etc.).
JoeK said
Paul addresses the people in Galatians as brethren. They were already added to the church at the time of his leter to them. Professed believers. Hence he speaks about restoration. He was not writing to teachers in regards to the unregenerate or uncoverted, even babes in Christ are added to the church. There was no interviewing done Joe. How can you conclude that? Those who came to the Jordan with a sincere heart of repentance were dipped. That is it. There was no question and answer time on the shore.
JoeK, not everyone that attends a church is a member of the church – even then. Brethren was a common title to those inside/outside of the church and does not necessarily mean someone is saved or a member of the visible church. However, what your explanation really brings out is that you must support baptismal regeneration, for you are assuming that the un-baptized new converts are not brethren and yet you desire to baptize them? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" />
I agree with you that Galatians 6 is relevant to restoration. But isn't a new convert being restored? (i.e. the Muslim must deal with all those wives....) For instance, Galatians 6 says we are to carry one another’s burdens. Is this ONLY during a restoration period of a mature Christian’s life, or do you think that it may be a life principle that may be applied anywhere along the growth of a person professing Christ, (Luke 4:18 ff, etc.). The same could be said for verse 6, “Anyone who receives instruction [catechumen] in the word” .. may also refer to new converts as a general rule. Do new converts need help with burdens and instruction when first saved? Hmmm
JoeK said,
Exhortations are needed. Instruction in the Lord are needed. My point being is a long grueling examination is not. Like I said, a professon that Jesus is the Christ, and one believes in him should be all that is needed. I take people at their word... Then the body is to continue to care and teach this person.
JoeK, I believe the only person using the term “grueling” is YOU. I believe I argued that the whole process should be done from an attitude of love, acceptance, and fellowship.
JoeK said,
Look at the example in Acts.. After being added, the results are obvious.
1) Unity in Doctrine
2)Celebrating the Supper
3)Prayed together
4)Sharing all they had
5)Joy
6)Praise to God
And the Lord added to the church DAILY
Yes, Peter did a great job that day didn’t he. Please do note that it was a “day” that began early in the morning. However, if you would back up a few verses to Acts 2:14 you would see that the Eleven were with him. Peter was not alone. As matter a fact, if we take Acts 2:1 and 1:15 into consideration the 120 were there. Now you may like to believe that the Eleven and the 120 were just twiddling their thumbs but I believe they were circulating and mingling doing the Lord’s work [see below]. And though you quoted vs 40, did you get the jest of it?
Luke appears to say that the Jews asked questions about many subjects related to Peter’s message. He stresses the word other, which in the Greek stands first in the sentence for emphasis. Luke leaves the impression that Peter warned the inquirers to examine carefully the evidence he has presented. In fact, the tense of the verb exhorting (in Greek) indicates that Peter repeatedly appealed to his listeners with this request: “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” The request is an echo of a line in the song of Moses familiar to the audience because of its use in the synagogue worship services:
They have acted corruptly toward [God];
to their shame they are no longer his children,
but a warped and crooked generation. [Deut. 32:5]
In other words, the sermon (or at least parts of it) was preached over and over. It was an all day affair, which began prior to the third hour of the day (2:15). And while Peter was preaching 131 people were working the crowd (3000/131 = app. 23 people per person). Now how do you think they came to know who was a believer? How did these on this special day of Pentecost know who had received the word and who had not? Do you think questions were asked? Moreover, who answered all the questions? – just Peter? (Acts 2:37 ”Brethren, [plural] what shall we do?”). There was plenty of time and people for some examination.
However, the Day of Pentecost was a very special day and a very special gift was being given out – the gift (sg., not gifts) of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:4, 38). True believers would have easily been able to be picked out! [see Calvin]. So, yes instant baptism would have been the call of that day.
