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Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 70 |
Pilgrim said:xyz said: 'Christ died for all sins, past, present, future.'
That much is clear, surely?
'No-one can claim impunity against God.'
That means that no-one can say they sinned against God and got away with it. (If they could, they would be God.)
'However, not all will escape condemnation, because to reject substitutionary propitiation'
That means to reject the 'payment' made on one's behalf, like refusing a governor's pardon because you reckon you had not committed a crime. b. Since Christ's atonement was substitutionary, then whatever it did accomplish it was rendered complete "in behalf of" those who were the intended recipients. c. In regard to propitiation (Gk: hilaskomai), which means to appease the wrath of one who is offended by the removal of that which has caused the offense. Since Christ IS the propitiation for sin, then God's anger is effectively and completely removed by the expiation of sin; the offense. Thus as Owen inarguably shows, if Christ's death was for all, i.e., every man, woman and child from Adam to the very last of the human race, then all MUST be saved. If one should argue, as you appear to be doing, that one is barred from salvation due to the rejection of one truth which you call "substitutionary propitiation", in itself a sin, and if Christ's death atoned for ALL sin, then why should the rejection of that one particular doctrine; a sin But is it a sin? Does one not have the right to decide upon the nature of one's own conduct? We are gods. We have the sovereign right to determine our own fates. We have the right to say that we are sinless, and have no need of propitiation, or even that there is no such thing as sin. But if we do that, we have to prove it, and it is only then, when we come to judgment, that our denial becomes folly. And because it is a folly, and a lie, it can be accounted a sin- the unforgivable sin, as it will turn out. So when we hear that all of our sins have been forgiven, we have the choice of accepting that, or rejecting it. We do not hear that all but one of our sins are forgiven, because that would be no better than hearing that none are forgiven.
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Entire Thread
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For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Thu May 15, 2008 6:37 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Thu May 15, 2008 7:54 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Thu May 15, 2008 9:25 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Paul_S
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Fri May 16, 2008 3:44 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Fri May 16, 2008 6:49 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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William
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Sat May 17, 2008 1:51 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Mon May 19, 2008 2:40 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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William
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Mon May 19, 2008 11:31 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Paul_S
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Tue May 20, 2008 3:53 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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William
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Wed May 21, 2008 12:01 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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MarieP
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Mon May 19, 2008 11:00 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Tue May 20, 2008 8:32 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:44 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:51 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:56 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:54 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:21 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:28 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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jaf
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:33 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:49 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:04 PM
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chestnutmare
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:13 PM
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xyz
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:23 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:37 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:42 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:59 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:00 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Peter
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:59 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:44 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:28 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:32 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:03 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:37 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:49 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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MarieP
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:52 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:29 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:58 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:42 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:53 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:49 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Peter
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 3:46 PM
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mercy
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:14 PM
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Peter
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:22 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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mercy
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:02 PM
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Paul_S
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:42 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:58 PM
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mercy
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:01 PM
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Peter
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Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:32 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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hisalone
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:13 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:59 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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hisalone
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:16 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:04 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:30 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:15 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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CovenantInBlood
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Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:17 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:34 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:04 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:38 PM
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Robin
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:31 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:51 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:01 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 7:13 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:05 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:17 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:41 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:27 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:44 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:41 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:05 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:29 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:57 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:10 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:43 AM
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Paul_S
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:54 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:30 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:26 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Robin
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:17 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:49 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:32 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:44 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:02 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:13 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:47 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:24 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:50 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:23 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 2:25 PM
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xyz
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:08 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:06 PM
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xyz
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:45 PM
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mercy
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 9:32 PM
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Wes
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:04 PM
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xyz
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:19 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:24 PM
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xyz
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 10:46 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 11:54 PM
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xyz
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 12:41 AM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Wes
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:12 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:29 PM
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Wes
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 4:35 PM
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xyz
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 5:09 PM
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MarieP
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:17 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Wes
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:08 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Jun 27, 2008 8:30 PM
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:03 PM
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:10 PM
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Pilgrim
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:56 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:10 PM
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:34 AM
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CovenantInBlood
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Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:00 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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hisalone
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:53 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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BradJHammond
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:46 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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hisalone
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:01 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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BradJHammond
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:01 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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The Monergist
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:21 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:12 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:57 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:50 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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BradJHammond
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:05 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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xyz
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:26 PM
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Re: For Whom Did Christ Die?
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Tom
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:08 AM
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THREAD IS NOW LOCKED
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CovenantInBlood
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Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:38 PM
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