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Joined: Apr 2001
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BradJHammond said:Pilgrim said: Why would anyone in their natural state "accept Jesus"? More, how can anyone in their natural state "accept Jesus"? They can't! Regeneration precedes faith and repentance or "accepting Jesus." Nevertheless, the Church's proclamation of the gospel call or the invitation to "receive Christ and believe in His name" (John 1:11) must be extended to all (Mt. 11:28-30; Rom. 10:14; Rev. 22:17). While God's effectual calling of His elect (Rom. 8:30) is irresistible, the general or external calling ( through which God effectually calls His elect) is offered to all and can be (and will be) rejected by unregenrate sinners. We do not know who God's elect are so we must always proclaim the gospel freely and to all men. Does the unregenrate sinner (or the sinner who is being regenerated) really need to be apprised of all of this (i.e. their total inability) before being called to repent and believe? John MacArthur doesn't do it; James M. Boice didn't do it, so why should Rick Warren have to? Brad, Your first premise is rather "fractured", i.e., the fact that all men need regeneration of the Spirit in order to repent and believe since they are spiritually dead; openly in rebellion against God and all that is holy has little bearing upon the universal call of the Gospel. Man's natural state does not except him nor include him from the outward calling to repent and believe. Put another way, the extent of the Gospel call isn't dependent upon man's spiritual condition. However, man's spiritual state is directly dependent upon the Gospel; better, the sovereign working of the Holy Spirit through the right preaching of the Gospel. My main concern here is actually that which I have highlighted above; the necessity of making known a sinner's "state" or "condition" before calling one to repentance and faith. I'll have to take your word that MacArthur nor Boice never did/does so, but I do know that the overwhelming majority of the Reformers and Puritans did preach on Original Sin and its dreadful affects, i.e., the doctrine of total depravity/inability. This was the Gospel preached for centuries until Finney came along (of course there were others as well), but he made popular the "dumbed-down gospel" methodology for he adamantly rejected the doctrines of grace and embraced Pelagianism. Today, we don't have so much Arminianism as was the case during the time of Wesley, et al, (an improvement of sorts over Finneyism) but rather the churches and most professing Christians have sunk even lower and have embraced semi-Pelagianism. Rather than go into a long excursus on the necessity of preaching the total depravity/inability of man as being foundational to the Gospel of Scripture with many examples cited, I am simply going to point you to a excerpt taken from J.I. Packer's Introductory Essay to John Owen's 'Death of Death in the Death of Christ'. In this short excerpt he deals specifically with this issue and contrasts the "Old Gospel" with the "New Gospel", its application and affects. Go here: The Old Gospel and the New. For the full essay, go here: Introductory Essay to [i]The Death of Death[/i]Arthur Pink agrees and says thus from his article: Present Day Evangelism In twentieth-century evangelism there has been a woeful ignoring of the solemn truth of the total depravity of man. There has been a complete underrating of the desperate case and condition of the sinner. Very few indeed have faced the unpalatable fact that every man is thoroughly corrupt by nature, that he is completely unaware of his own wretchedness, blind and helpless, dead in trespasses and sins. Because such in his case, because his heart is filled with enmity against God, it follows that no man can be saved without the special and immediate intervention of God. According to our view here, so will it be else-where: to qualify and modify the truth of man’s total depravity will inevitably lead to the diluting of collateral truths. The teaching of Holy Writ on this point is unmistakable: man’s plight is such that his salvation is impossible unless God puts forth His mighty power. No stirring of the emotions by anecdotes, no regaling of the senses by music, no oratory of the preacher, no persuasive appeals, are of the slightest avail.
In His grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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I hoped that it will never happen but it did.
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Johan
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Sun May 25, 2008 12:08 PM
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Re: I hoped that it will never happen but it did.
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Wes
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Sun May 25, 2008 9:05 PM
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Re: I hoped that it will never happen but it did.
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Johan
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Mon May 26, 2008 11:39 AM
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Re: I hoped that it will never happen but it did.
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Wes
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Mon May 26, 2008 12:31 PM
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Re: I hoped that it will never happen but it did.
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Arashi-dono
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Tue May 27, 2008 4:14 AM
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Re: I hoped that it will never happen but it did.
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Robin
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Tue May 27, 2008 5:19 PM
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Rick Warren's False Gospel
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MarieP
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Tue May 27, 2008 8:36 PM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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Johan
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Wed May 28, 2008 7:09 AM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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BradJHammond
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Wed May 28, 2008 5:00 PM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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Johan
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Wed May 28, 2008 6:03 PM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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BradJHammond
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Wed May 28, 2008 8:01 PM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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Pilgrim
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Thu May 29, 2008 11:17 AM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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BradJHammond
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:03 AM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:04 AM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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BradJHammond
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:28 PM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:12 PM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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BradJHammond
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Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:12 PM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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Tom
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Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:00 AM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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chestnutmare
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 3:32 AM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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Tom
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Wed Jun 04, 2008 6:31 PM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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mercy
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:05 PM
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Re: Rick Warren's False Gospel
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Lucy
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Sat Jun 07, 2008 5:38 PM
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