The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Is there a link?

Is there a link between new translations of the Bible and the decrease in, I don't know, REAL theology in churches?

There is most definitely a connection, "the missing link" (i.e. The Bible itself). The lay person when reading different versions of Scripture normally do not have access, or take no time to have the proper access (education, etc.), to the original languages. Thus, they take what they read as THE BIBLE when in actuality it is a perversion of such (i.e. NIV--the nearly inspired version). Moreover, scholars since they have the liberty to manufacture translations to their "own" theological liking often produce them accordingly. Every scholar has been trained in a hermeneutic and theology of the Bible and impose this upon the "original" text. After these glasses of translation have been imposed unwary individuals begin to “see” things in this perverted way—

Here are some articles (though you may not agree with all that is in them) that are very interesting in speaking about motives in Bible translation. Theology and the Great Tradition of English Bibles, by Cameron A. MacKenzie (Chairman and Professor of Historical Theology, Concordia Theological Seminary). In it I enjoyed the comments about Tyndale and More, which I believe is relevant to the discussion at hand. Here is another one that is about the CEV and NLT: Evangelical Bible Translations and the Jews.

J. Edwards,

Of course, the generation of new "Scripture" is because of the Pop, new age or P.C. interpretations of God's words. Recently I read somewhere that the "proper" interpretation of the Sodom and Gomorrah event was not that the Lord had homosexual sin and depravity in mind in His judgment. According to this article, (I can't remember where I saw it) the Lord was punishing the residents of Sodom for being "inhospitable". <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/ClapHands.gif" alt="" />

Denny

Romans 3:22-24

Not only are many of the newer translations diluted and compromised to suit the readers mindset but many churches today don't even use Scripture as they should. I've visited a mega church in my area to witness the baptism of child. When it came time for the sermon instead of exhorting the Scriptures they quoted a verse of Scripture as a pre-text to lead into a discussion about a certain topic which had little to do with the text. This consisted of a good moral lesson and an encouragement to feel good about yourself (like God loves you just the way you are and has a wonderful plan for your life). Nothing was said about sin and the need for repentance nor law and gospel.

It was sad to see such a wonderful opportunity to proclaim God's Word being misused in this way. No wonder many people today don't know what a biblical world view is.


Wes

Good grief.

So is there any way we can be sure that what we're reading approximates the actual Word of God? I've read some translations that were obviously tripe but then I've thought until recently that the NIV was a fine translation. I'm kinda at a loss here.

In actuality we DO NOT have the actual "originals" of any of the texts to our knowledge. ALL we have is "copies." However, we have "so many" copies that it is believed that we have contained in all the fragments the actual text. God in his sovereignty has seen fit that this is so for many reasons among which: (1) we will not worship the actual originals, (2) we continue to live by faith, not sight, etc.

To the degree that our Bibles reflect the autographic text, they are the Word of God. The NIV does not reflect such. NIV is not a translation of the Scripture--it is more of a contemporary commentary then anything--and a poor one at that. There are objective means of determining what belongs to the autographic text: textual criticism. However, all our knowledge of Scripture, our access to it, is burdened with human fallibility. Even if we had the autographs (originals), we would have imperfect means of understanding their language, their teaching, and even if we had perfect knowledge of the languages, grammar, etc., we would still distort the teaching because of our sin. We MUST trust the Holy Spirit.

Here are some notes from John Frame's class on the Scriptures that I believe will be helpful: Inerrancy (check your e-mail as I have sent you the whole file of Frame's lectures). Though Dr. Frame's book shall be out in due time (the notes are his outline for part of it) a classic in this area and a must have for any library is, Holy Scripture: The Ground and Pillar of Our Faith

Now THAT'S a REPLY!

It looks great. I'll get around to going through them ASAP.

Er, anyone have a good suggestion for a replacement text for a recovering NIV junkie?

I'd go with the ESV, the NKJV, or the NASB myself. Although there is nothing wrong with the classic KJV either.

Well the ESV reads pretty good online anyway. I couldn't find much info about Good News Publishers though who seems to be the ones putting it out.

Always remember one important lesson.

Understanding comes by revelation not by education

Now if by revelation you mean the Bible--which is all there is and all there's going to be--then yeah. I know little old ladies who might have a high school diploma who wear the covers off their bibles on a regular basis who walk with the Lord day by day in a way that most of us can't really grasp.

Otherwise I'm a little concerned about that term revelation Joe. Its been waved about way too often by charismatic groups who tout experience over the study of the Word of God and thereby exalt it over everything else.

Also, the way I got into this mess with the NIV to begin with is because I didn't look into it before hand. I just ran down to the bible store and picked up an NIV study bible and began to use it because "Gee Mom, all the other kids are...." I didn't STUDY the situation it was REVEALED to me by a trusted friend that the NIV was the way to go. I mean I've bought my KIDS this thing for crying out loud...ahem.

Excuse me. This really ticks me off so I'm going to have to take a break.

THis is not what i mean. May I suggest you do a concordance/lexigon study of the word REVEAL in scripture. Then you shall understand what I mean.

apokalupto {ap-ok-al-oop'-to}


1) to uncover, lay open what has been veiled or covered up

a) disclose, make bare

2) to make known, make manifest, disclose what before was unknown

Which comes directly from God (revelation) and not by education.(Study, books, intelligence)


This comes from God. I agree that some translations are terrible. But I believe the translations we have today are inspired. If one claims that only the original copies are inspired, then noone has ever read the truth. If only those who know 1st century Koine greek, which may be 1% of the worlds population, what are we left with?

Uhmm, since ALL the translations DO NOT agree with one another then how can they ALL be inspired? How can they ALL be “the” TRUTH, if they say DIFFERENT things at SAME points? Are you ascertaining that you serve a dysfunctional god now who can not make up his mind which translation to go with on any given day, or do you serve a HOLY God that only has one TRUTH?

Joe, Perhaps I should have said most? If not, what translation should we use? Are you a KJV only? I agree that some are terrible. But there are many that are good.

One of the biggest lies in modern day Christianity, is that the Bible is only inspired in the original papers written on. But since the originals do not exist,and noone has seen them we are left with additional doctrinal standards, ie confessions, of which man has made himself the final authority.

IF you admit that the Bible is only inspired in the original Hebrew/Greek, then this makes God a respector of persons, since people that have been dead for thousands of years were the only ones privy to this info.

WHen the Bible is only inspired in the original tongue, then we common lay people, have to go to those who know, or better yet, claim to know the original tongue, and they become the final authority.

SO to answer your inane question, I worship a God who providentially has kept His Holy Word alive and understandable to to plowman as well as the scholar. And all "faithful" translations are inspired.

First, no I am not KJV only.

Second, Where is your proof that ANY translation is inspired? Sorry, but your word is not enough. By definition, NO translation of Scripture is inspired!!!

Third, you state, “And all "faithful" translations are inspired.” Faithful to “what?”

Fourth, God NEVER abandoned His Word. He left us copies (so we wouldn’t worship the originals, like you are attempting to worship your multiple “good” translations).

Your problem is with your definition of “inspired.” Inspiration refers directly to "only" the autographa. The inspired Scriptures are God's pure, perfect, complete, inerrant and therefore the authoritative word. Biblical inspiration suppressed the fallible element in the writers, but not in its translators today!!!! You should study the

THE CHICAGO STATEMENT ON BIBLICAL INERRANCY.

The Doctrine of Inspiration. And a whole host of others here: Sola Scriptura.

The Authority & Inspiration of the Scriptures

2 Timothy 3:15-16, theopneustos.