The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Baptism why the disagreement concerning mode?

hisalone said:
You put way too much faith in confessions. I don't find my final source in the confessions. As you demonstrated with this snippet, confessions of faith can be contradictory.

hisalone said:
What do YOU think the purpose of Baptism is? That is the crux of the matter, our view of its purpose.

hisalone said:
Why are you laughing? From your answer to me, it shows that you really do not understand anything that has been said to this point. Water baptism isn't necessary nor does it add to our salvation, it is about our choice to be obedient. How can an infant make such a choice? BTW, I believe in dedicating a child to the Lord, a choice a parent can make, but baptism is a personal choice that nobody can make for you. Is that so difficult to see?

Pilgrim said:

You are more Anabaptist than Reformed since you reject the great Confessions which the CHURCH (interdenominational) has formulated as a statement of faith in regard to the doctrines of Scripture. Again, how is it that you are so knowledgeable of such things and all before us somehow were blind to these things? <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/scratchchin.gif" alt="" />

Pilgrim said:
My view is exactly that which is summarized in all the Confessions, catechisms and history of the CHURCH (Protestant) to which I referenced previously. Secondly, you were asked by both myself and CovenantInBlood to defend your view with Scripture. Asking what I/we believe is hardly an answer. Can you present your case or not?

pilgrim said:

BTW, for a topic for another thread, where in Scripture can you show that infants are to be "dedicated"?

As you demonstrated with this snippet, confessions of faith can be contradictory.

I clearly explained what I believe Baptism represents. This representation is in line with the way things are consecrated in the Bible. How individuals entered the priesthood etc. We are consecrating ourselves willingly. I don't understand why you are looking for specific verses. You make things more difficult than they are. Its as if you can't see the forest due to the trees. I am not presenting specific verses, I am saying read about consecration and washings and try to see what baptism is all about. Your thinking is going the same route of the Pharasees, hung up on particulars and because of that, unable to see the truth. Let each judge on their own what is true. I'm not interested in convincing you, each must be convinced in their own heart.

That's because no one ever has assigned that meaning to Christian baptism - until now.

MarieP said:
Ok, I am not defending hisalone, but I did some Google searching. I am not advocating the writers of these works either...But apparently there are others that believe similarly to what hisalone does on this issue. Please correct me if I am wrong.

The Priesthood of the Plebs: a Theology of Baptism- Peter Leithart (Warning: Federal Visionist heresy!)

Of Baptism- Bob Burridge

The Reformed Doctrine of Baptism & New Testament Practice- Ligon Duncan

MarieP said:
I should have been more clear...

The articles mentioned priesthood only in relation to Christ's baptism by John, not the baptism of Christians. I thought you were also objecting to hisalone's statement that Christ's had to do with the priesthood. Sorry I was not clear. No, they do not say that Christian baptism has to do with the priesthood.

Pilgrim said:
Marie,

Methinks your method of searching with Google needs to be improved. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/giggle.gif" alt="" /> The two articles by Burridge and Duncan clearly do NOT teach anything even remotely similar to what hisalone is advocating, i.e., "baptism means/is a consecration of a NT believer into a/the priesthood". I read through both articles from beginning to end and nothing of the sort is even hinted at by either author. Both take the historic, biblical view on the meaning of baptism. As for Leithart, I have no desire to waste my time reading the writings of a heretic especially when I know that for FV'ers, baptism is something far different than it is in historic biblical Christianity. It's just that I cannot see wasting my time looking for truth from one who rejects the truth. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His grace,

Pilgrim said:

<span style="background-color:#FFFF00">No, there is no objection to Christ's baptism having a relationship to His being consecrated into the priesthood.</span> It was necessary that He fulfill all righteousness. That is surely taught in Scripture.

6 That he might fulfill all righteousness : not only moral, but the figurative, ceremonial and typical : some think that the ceremony, to which our Saviour looked at in these words, was the washing of the priests in water, when they entered into their function. "and Aaron, and his sons thou shalt bring to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shalt wash them with water," Exod. 29:4 Lev. 8:6 <span style="background-color:#FFFF00">And surely this was the main reason of Christ's being baptized, that by this baptism he might be installed into his ministerial office.</span> <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/BigThumbUp.gif" alt="" />

William said:


I copied this is from the book "Looking Unto Jesus" by Isaac Ambrose, I just started to read it again it's a must have.



William

[b]The Whole Church Is A Priestly People[/b]

Christ, high priest and unique mediator, has made of the Church "a kingdom, priests for his God and Father" [Rev 1:6; Rev 5:9-10; 1 Pet 2:5, 9]. The whole community of believers is, as such, priestly. The faithful exercise their baptismal priesthood through their participation, each according to his own vocation, in Christ's mission as priest, prophet, and king (CCC1546). For in the Church there is diversity of ministry but unity of mission. To the apostles and their successors Christ has entrusted the office of teaching, sanctifying and governing in his name and by his power. But the laity are made to share in the priestly, prophetical, and kingly office of Christ; they have therefore, in the Church and in the world, their own assignment in the mission of the whole People of God (CCC873).
The whole Church is a priestly people. Through Baptism all the faithful share in the priesthood of Christ. This participation is called the "common priesthood of the faithful" (CCC1591). On entering the People of God through faith and Baptism, one receives a share in this people's unique, priestly vocation: "Christ the Lord, high priest taken from among men, has made this new people 'a kingdom of priests to God, his Father.' The baptized, by regeneration and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, are consecrated to be a spiritual house and a holy priesthood" [Heb 5:1-5; Rev 1:6] (CCC784) . The baptized have become "living stones" to be "built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood" [1 Pet 2:5]. By Baptism they share in the priesthood of Christ, in his prophetic and royal mission. They are "a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, that [they] may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called [them] out of darkness into his marvelous light" [1 Pet 2:9]. Baptism gives a share in the common priesthood of all believers (CCC1268) .

William said:
This is the best I could find concerning baptism/priestood of believers. I don't think the web site is fully reformed though. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />