The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Question for Pilgrim: Presbygationalist

Pilgrim,

If I recall correctly, you at one time or another referred to yourself as a "presbygationalist". I am curious about what aspects of of presbyterianism/congregationalism you would include/exclude. Or, how would you define "presbygationalist"? As this probably has a detailed answer, just the main points will suffice.

Thanks,
John

Hi John,

I could probably answer your question about my "Presbygationalism" in this manner. On the negative side, I find no biblical warrant for an ecclesiastical court hierarchy which one finds in both classic Presbyterian and Continental Reformed denominations. Contrariwise, I do find a close association between individual congregations who are of like mind in both doctrine and life and in the sharing of resources for ministry to further the kingdom of God, e.g., missionary work, mutual counsel, etc.

On the positive side, I believe that Scripture teaches that each congregation is to be taught and ruled by a plurality of elders and that there is to be men who serve as deacons. Further, I do not see a 3-fold distinction for these two offices where some have effectively bifurcated the Eldership into two offices (Kingly and Prophetic) whereby there are teaching elders and ruling elders. I believe Scripture clearly teaches that there is but one office of Elder within which certain men are gifted more than others to preach. But ALL are to be able to teach and ALL have equal authority both over the congregation and among themselves.

This effects the Congregational system, of course, in that the responsibility and rule of the congregation rests with the Elders and not the members of the congregation, e.g., in the final appointment (ordination) of elders and deacons, doctrine, discipline, etc.

Does this give you the information you were wanting to know?

In His grace,

Pilgrim,

What you described seems to me to be very much how the Reformed Churches in South Africa (GKSA) operates. That's why we refer to "Churches" in the plural and not in the singular. Unfortunately the "like mindedness in doctrine" is not as like minded as it was 40 or 50 years ago.

Johan

Pilgrim,

Thanks. Just to clarify, are you saying that you agree more with presbyterianism at a local level (church with deacons and elders) but more with congregationalism at a higher level (no presbytery) where churches have a looser association (like the SBC)?

John

I think that would be a fair summary of my position. I have nothing against "denominations" per se. My objection is to the hierarchy that exists in the Presbyterian form of church government because, 1) I find no biblical warrant for it, and 2) history shows it simply does not work. A mutual respect for other like-minded congregations seems to be the pattern I find in Scripture that are bound in the Spirit, in doctrine and life (practice) appears to be the way the NT Church functioned. Christ is the head of the Church Who by His Spirit has ordained that Elders and Deacons should tend the flock in local assemblies. Unless one wishes to suggest Apostolic succession still exists, I don't see any other governing body established that is to rule over individual congregations.

That's my