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#46674
Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:22 AM
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Go back about 50 years and you'll see that Catholics and Protestants stood shoulder to shoulder on the issue of the use of contraceptives during sex. The Catholic Church remains intransigent on this issue, but it seems that most mainline Protestants no longer speak out on this issue. It appears that they have abdigated this issue as one that is personal and requires no censure from the pulpit. This brings up a few questions. 1. If the moral issue of contraceptive use can be recategorized as a personal issue that the church cannot speak on, what trend does this set for other personal behaviors? 2. Is there any significant corner of Protestantism that still speaks boldly and expressly on this issue, not by just having it encoded in their platform, but actively opposed from the pulpit? 3. As the late Blessed John Paul's encyclical on the Theology of the Body beautifully illustrated the Catholic Church's position on contraceptives, can Protestants also form a compelling argument on which once again take a stand against the proliferation of contraceptives? Also posted on: http://forum.bible-discussion.com/s...st-Contraception&p=342932#post342932http://www.lds.net/forums/general-d...ts-against-contraception.html#post597423
Last edited by via_dolorosa; Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:37 AM.
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Go back about 50 years and you'll see that Catholics and Protestants stood shoulder to shoulder on the issue of the use of contraceptives during sex.
2. Is there any significant corner of Protestantism that still speaks boldly and expressly on this issue, not by just having it encoded in their platform, but actively opposed from the pulpit? a. Your reference to 50 years ago where Protestants and Catholics allegedly stood together on the issue of contraceptives... is far too broad a statement and is therefore subject to much misunderstanding. At that time most Protestants were not opposed to contraception in general but rather certain TYPES of contraceptives. The truth is that most were opposed to the use of "abortifacients", i.e., anything that caused the destruction of a fertilized egg, e.g., IUD, etc. That would include today such things as the "Morning After Pill" and similar abortifacients, which are rightly considered a form of abortion as the name implies. b. In traditional, historic Reformed and Calvinistic Baptist churches you can find this topic being preached from the pulpit and in other Bible teaching classes.
simul iustus et peccator
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Greetings, Pilgrim. To be more specific, all protestant churches opposed all forms of contraception until the Anglican church's Seventh Lambeth Conference in the 1930's in which contraceptives were allowed in a limited capacity. This lead to many other Protestant churches to follow suit until there was no sigificant opposition to contraception of any kind except abortion. The main argument from Protestants was from scripture citing the example of Onan who God punished for spilling his seed on the ground rather than to honor his familial obligation. The founders of Protestantism seemed to be of like mind: "[T]he exceedingly foul deed of Onan, the basest of wretches . . . is a most disgraceful sin. It is far more atrocious than incest and adultery. We call it unchastity, yes, a sodomitic sin. For Onan goes in to her—that is, he lies with her and copulates—and, when it comes to the point of insemination, spills the semen, lest the woman conceive. Surely at such a time the order of nature established by God in procreation should be followed. Accordingly, it was a most disgraceful crime. . . . Consequently, he deserved to be killed by God. He committed an evil deed. Therefore, God punished him" --Martin Luther "The voluntary spilling of semen outside of intercourse between man and woman is a monstrous thing. Deliberately to withdraw from coitus in order that semen may fall on the ground is doubly monstrous. For this is to extinguish the hope of the race and to kill before he is born the hoped-for offspring" --John Calvin "Onan, though he consented to marry the widow, yet to the great abuse of his own body, of the wife he had married, and the memory of the brother that was gone, refused to raise of seed to his brother. Those sins that dishonor the body and defile it are very displeasing to God and evidences of vile affections. Observe, the thing which he did displeased the Lord—and it is to be feared; thousands, especially of single persons, by this very thing, still displease the Lord and destroy their own souls" --John Wesley Of all Protestant traditions, the orthodox Amish and Lutherans seem to be the only ones actively opposed to contraception. In the case of the Amish, even the Catholic practice of calendar planning is prohibited. And now, thanks to you, I can gladly add to that list traditional, historic Reformed and Calvinist Baptist churches.
Liberalism -- Ideas so good, they have to be mandated.
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IF you have understood what I wrote as being in agreement with those stated by Luther, Calvin and Wesley, which you equate with the views on contraception of Rome, you are unfortunately and woefully mistaken. What I wrote was I and most conservative Reformed and Calvinistic Baptist churches are opposed to the use of any type of abortifacient, which I qualified as anything which effected a fertilized egg, and providing a couple examples; IUDs and the 'Morning After Pill'.
I would disagree with Luther, Calvin and Wesley in their interpretation and application of the case with Onan. How I interpret the passage in question is not the issue and I shall not bother to spend time exegeting the passage. And I do think the Roman State Church should spend far more energy on dealing with adultery, fornication, homosexuality, pornography, etc., which runs rampant through both its members and clergy rather than decrying the alleged horrible sin of a married couple choosing to use condoms or some other non-abortifacient.
simul iustus et peccator
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At that time most Protestants were not opposed to contraception in general but rather certain TYPES of contraceptives. The truth is that most were opposed to the use of "abortifacients", i.e., anything that caused the destruction of a fertilized egg, e.g., IUD, etc. Interesting. I've never heard that before and I'd be very interested in learning more. Do you have any references,links...whatever, that I can check out, which delves more into this distinction?
Last edited by Newman; Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:24 PM.
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Sorry Newman, but I don't have any references which you can check out. Among us Protestants who stand against abortion in all its horrendous forms, it is generally acknowledged that not all contraceptives are contributory to abortion and thus acceptable for use. We also desire to go beyond the outward prevention of pregnancy and focus upon the heart; the reasons why a couple would not want any more children. There are far more unbiblical and selfish reasons than there are good ones and thus sin lies at the door and that is a more pressing matter that should be addressed.
simul iustus et peccator
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Dang. Well, then how do you know that 50 years ago, Protestants were only opposed to certain TYPES (your emphasis) of contraception? Is this just something you've been told verbally, like you're telling me now?
Last edited by Newman; Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:23 PM.
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Dang. Well, then how do you know that 50 years ago, Protestants were only opposed to certain TYPES (your emphasis) of contraception? Is this just something you've been told verbally, like you're telling me now? Back 40 or 50 years ago there wasn't much in the way of abortificients other than the IUD and the local butcher who worked in dark allies if a hospital wasn't your first choice. There were other alleged "remedies" of course, e.g., a scalding hot bath, consumables, etc., etc., ad nauseam. Anything that came along that was promoted as a pregnancy preventative was widely publicized and/or made known through "Right to Life" groups. A close watch on "Planned Parenthood" was operative even back then, which often got the latest and greatest products designed to that end. All I can tell you from experience is what I've already mentioned... conservative Protestants were and still are opposed to any and all forms of abortificients but they are not opposed to other forms of contraception. 
simul iustus et peccator
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I got ya. Thanks. I agree with you that it is too broad to say that 50 years ago, Catholics and Protestants stood arm in arm against contraception. Maybe 80 years ago that was the case, (and certainly before then all the way back to the Reformation) but between 1930 and 1960 it seems Protestant Churches and Pastors became ever increasingly accepting of barrier methods and the divide grew pretty significantly. I've never heard before what you said about somewhat universal opposition to abortifacients at the time. As I say, that's pretty interesting to me, especially since the pill is an abortifacient and yet is pretty widely accepted by Protetants today, I think. I don't know if there were any Protestant objections to the pill along those lines 30 or 40 years ago. Probably not, would be my guess.
Last edited by Newman; Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:32 PM.
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I would disagree with Luther, Calvin and Wesley in their interpretation and application of the case with Onan. I know you don't want to exegete the Onan passage here and that's fine, but, if I may, why do you think it was that they all got it wrong? Did the social environment they lived in lead them to this error? Obviously many would say that's the case, and that now we should adapt to modern sensibilities. I doubt if you'd put it that way, but I don't really know what you would say about it, hence my interest. Also, is there any other passage, or issue in which all the reformers and all their successors got scripture wrong?
Last edited by Newman; Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:43 PM.
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I got ya. Thanks. I agree with you that it is too broad to say that 50 years ago, Catholics and Protestants stood arm in arm against contraception. Maybe 80 years ago that was the case, (and certainly before then all the way back to the Reformation) but between 1930 and 1960 it seems Protestant Churches and Pastors became ever increasingly accepting of barrier methods and the divide grew pretty significantly. I've never heard before what you said about somewhat universal opposition to abortifacients at the time. As I say, that's pretty interesting to me, especially since the pill is an abortifacient and yet is pretty widely accepted by Protetants today, I think. I don't know if there were any Protestant objections to the pill along those lines 30 or 40 years ago. Probably not, would be my guess. Unless I have been told wrong by the medical community, the pill can come as a abortifacient, or non-abortifacient. Tom
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I got ya. Thanks. I agree with you that it is too broad to say that 50 years ago, Catholics and Protestants stood arm in arm against contraception. Maybe 80 years ago that was the case, (and certainly before then all the way back to the Reformation) but between 1930 and 1960 it seems Protestant Churches and Pastors became ever increasingly accepting of barrier methods and the divide grew pretty significantly. I've never heard before what you said about somewhat universal opposition to abortifacients at the time. As I say, that's pretty interesting to me, especially since the pill is an abortifacient and yet is pretty widely accepted by Protetants today, I think. I don't know if there were any Protestant objections to the pill along those lines 30 or 40 years ago. Probably not, would be my guess. Unless I have been told wrong by the medical community, the pill can come as a abortifacient, or non-abortifacient. Tom There are actually no birth control pills that can guarantee not to be an abortifacient. The way birth control pills work is by setting up a gauntlet to prevent pregnancies. The combination of progestogen and estrogen works to suppress the production of egg cells, then to change the mucus in the cervex to make it difficult for sperm to reach the egg, and then, if those two fail, the uteral wall linings are suppressed from developing so that a fertilized egg can find purchase in it. None of these measures alone can fully assure a prevention of pregnancy and figures vary as to how many eggs are expressed in spite of the pill and become fertilized only to die for lack of assylum.
Last edited by via_dolorosa; Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:55 PM.
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