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Pilgrim
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Tom Offline OP
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Pilgrim

You are correct, the word "feeling" is not actually a good word to use. I am also finding out the hard way, that most of the time if I give any information of this nature; it is either completely ignored, or I am told not to share information like that ever again. They refuse to believe it at all.

This unfortunately is my own family; mainly because some of them are in the medical field and have completely bought into the vaccine narrative.
They are usually polite to me, but it is clear they believe I am in danger because I have not been vaccinated.

I hear them talking about these things, as though I am not in the room. Yet, if I mention what I believe it is clear my input is not welcomed.

To be honest it hurts; but I find it best just to pray in those situations.

So I hope you understand why I used the word "feeling".

I know from talking to friends and family members who agree with me; they are in the same boat. This includes my own mother; of which several women in her own Church out of supposed concern, were giving her a hard time about her not getting vaccinated. She finally because she got tired of it; told them to stop and fortunately they did.

However, her neighbor who she was really close to refuses to talk to her anymore.

Tom

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And the sad part is that there are 100s of thousands, perhaps millions in Canada and the U.S. who have been duped by the lies of governments, CDC, and other medical agencies yet even when it is now public knowledge that vaccines do NOT prevent or even diminish infection or transmission nor do typical masks, even the N95 variety which actually harm individuals, these people continue to be ruled by the lies. But Tom, if you would stop for but a few seconds and look at several other 'narratives' which are likewise held tenaciously to be true but which are totally fabricated falsehoods; man-made "Climate Change", "Gender Identity and Transgenderism", the 'normalcy of "Homosexuality", et al. Anyone who questions the validity of these things are cancelled, ostracized, and even imprisoned in certain cases. What can I say?... welcome to a world which is under the power of the Evil One, which the One True God by His absolute sovereignty and providence is controlling according to His eternal determination for His glory and the elects sanctification. Perhaps I am not too far out of line in stating that I believe we in this time, which will become worse and worse as we move toward the great day of Christ's coming, are experiencing a wee view of what Hell is going to be like where depravity and sin are unfettered, albeit under the direction and will of God.

Advice? Same o, same o; avoid discussions of any of these current narratives with your family and alleged 'friends'. These false narratives are NOT the root cause of friction between you and them or the similar confrontations with anyone else. The root cause is the corruption of nature. It is the Gospel that they all need to hear and the Spirit's work of regeneration. Without that, all is futility and the truth will be rejected. THAT is YOUR main problem, i.e., do you REALLY believe this truth? Or, are you going to assume that these individuals are all regenerate and the problem is simply an intellectual one where they have chosen to believe a few falsehoods which if given the truth they will change their mind? scratchchin


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“man-made "Climate Change", "Gender Identity and Transgenderism", the 'normalcy of "Homosexuality", et al.”

Often a package deal of neopagan religious frevor. It’s clear why many would be susceptible to deception and seduction in these areas and across the board. Made easier if it’s the disposition of whole states and territories. This reality may not be any less heart breaking and challenging. But it needn’t be surprising. We don’t need to wait on any high profile expert or even theologian.

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One last post then I’ll give it a rest….

Same “Dr” on 2 different programs. The presuppositions are different. One is establishment, ivory tower, ideological and the other is more frontline, patient centered and growing more skeptical. Science and healthcare should not be ideology-based. I do think public health sometimes wants to view society as one big mass of humanity. They would favor mandates, a one-size-fits-all approach (and maybe even sterilization, who knows). The other side is serious about informed consent and the oath to ‘do no harm.’





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Tom Offline OP
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Quote
The root cause is the corruption of nature. It is the Gospel that they all need to hear and the Spirit's work of regeneration. Without that, all is futility and the truth will be rejected. THAT is YOUR main problem, i.e., do you REALLY believe this truth? Or, are you going to assume that these individuals are all regenerate and the problem is simply an intellectual one where they have chosen to believe a few falsehoods which if given the truth they will change their mind? scratchchin

As far as I can tell, these people are regenerate. I am finding that even in the Church I attend, there are those who are pro-vaccine and those who are against the vaccine. Which really is not the big issue with me. Rather, the mandates against the unvaccinated and the Church, is more the issue. I am glad this has been relaxed; though people like Trudeau are still talking like those who are not vaccinated are vermin.

Our pastor and elders asked that people would not let vaccines related issues, get in the way of unity in the body.

The few times that people gave their opinion during a Bible study group, the teaching elder asked them not to speak about it. I was quite thankful to an elder, on one occasion when someone at small group Bible study, started talking about how they were very disappointed in a lot of Christians for their obvious disobedience to Romans 13.
Before the elder spoke up, I had to stop myself from speaking my mind.

More than a year ago, my pastor spoke of an excellent sermon by an Edmonton Alberta pastor on Romans 13; this pastor (Pastor James Coates had been been jailed for his stand). It was clear my pastor wanted people to listen to that sermon. This spoke volumes as to my pastor's stand on the issue.

As an aside, concerning Edmonton pastor James Coates; unfortunately I have a family member that says that Churches stand, makes them a border line cult. Let me tell you, when they said that, I came very close to rebuking them.

I only wish my pastor would have preached on Romans 13 himself.

Concerning, homosexuality and other government agendas on occasion (as I previously told you) my pastor on occasion has told the congregation about these things.

Tom

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I agree that mandates are the issue. If pro-vaccine Christians can at least understand that these shots are experimental, maybe they can come to a place of understanding with those who remain hesitant.

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Originally Posted by Anthony C.
I agree that mandates are the issue. If pro-vaccine Christians can at least understand that these shots are experimental maybe they can come to a place of understanding with those who remain hesitant.

I wish they would believe that these shot are experimental. That is not the case, at least with pro-vaccine Christians I am around. They believe that those who say that these shots are experimental may be well meaning, but are believing lies.

In Canada, our health officials are still saying that the vaccines are perfectly safe and tested.

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Thanks for the Dr. Drew videos; what I have heard so far is in keeping with others things I have read/heard. What really stands out to me, is the fact that most medical professionals who have concerns, about these vaccines get in trouble.

Tom

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Originally Posted by Tom
Originally Posted by Anthony C.
I agree that mandates are the issue. If pro-vaccine Christians can at least understand that these shots are experimental maybe they can come to a place of understanding with those who remain hesitant.

I wish they would believe that these shot are experimental. That is not the case, at least with pro-vaccine Christians I am around. They believe that those who say that these shots are experimental may be well meaning, but are believing lies.

In Canada, our health officials are still saying that the vaccines are perfectly safe and tested.

Ok, forget the word experimental…..


Are these vaccines still considered EUA? Or have they been approved/licensed?
What is the benefit-risk assessment? Is it the same for all ages?
How many boosters are required? Does this cover every variant?

These assurances from health officials needn’t conflict with a request for further precise clarifications.

Unfortunately, according to the FDA,

“informed consent as generally required under FDA regulations is not required for administration or use of an EUA product”


If these vaccines are safe and effective they should be authorized/licensed ….. however, to do so would increase liability and an accurate account of potential short/long-term side effects that would potentially increase further hesitancy.

Tom, stop making excuses for these Christians. You don’t have to make them believe anything but they need to respect your informed opinion even if it comes in conflict with experts and officials. There are limits to your obedience to government. You don’t have to apologize or make excuses for ignorance. You may have to practice Christian attributes of patience and charity when expressing yourself but you don’t have to censor yourself. Or you can just leave it alone. But I would be prepared to respond accordingly if you are ever pressed in the future.


https://www.cmpa-acpm.ca/en/advice-publications/handbooks/consent-a-guide-for-canadian-physicians

Last edited by Anthony C.; Fri Dec 16, 2022 10:35 PM.
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Originally Posted by Tom
Thanks for the Dr. Drew videos; what I have heard so far is in keeping with others things I have read/heard. What really stands out to me, is the fact that most medical professionals who have concerns, about these vaccines get in trouble.

Tom
Yes, and being shamed and silenced is immoral, unethical and naturally fuels further skepticism and resistance.

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I have not totally given up on trying to show the truth. However, I have grown tired of feeling I need to be the better person and biting my tongue and going to my knees instead of saying what I want to say.
I know beyond a reasonable doubt now, that should I push this issue; I lose the respect of family and friends.
As I said before, we have family and friends that are in the medical field. I was told that is who they get their medical information from, not me.

Is this an hill I am willing to die on? Is it a Gospel issue?

Tom

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Originally Posted by Tom
As I said before, we have family and friends that are in the medical field. I was told that is who they get their medical information from, not me.

Is this an hill I am willing to die on? Is it a Gospel issue?

Tom

Then leave it alone…. But if you do, be at peace with your decision.

As far as it being a Gospel issue, I believe our brothers and sisters in Christ can have blind spots. But I also agree with Pilgrim that it can be indicative of a greater spiritual issue.

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Originally Posted by Anthony C.
These assurances from health officials needn’t conflict with a request for further precise clarifications.

Unfortunately, according to the FDA,

“informed consent as generally required under FDA regulations is not required for administration or use of an EUA product”


If these vaccines are safe and effective they should be authorized/licensed ….. however, to do so would increase liability and an accurate account of potential short/long-term side effects that would potentially increase further hesitancy.

I also argue that to mandate a vaccine approved under EUA (emergency use authorization) is highly, highly unethical…

confusedBut I’m just one of the mindless, gullible peasants susceptible to ……


discernment ?

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Tom Offline OP
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Agreed!
I must be one of the
Quote
mindless, gullible peasants susceptible to ……
as well.

We can use all the discernment we can get.

Tom

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Originally Posted by Tom
Agreed!
I must be one of the
Quote
mindless, gullible peasants susceptible to ……
as well.

We can use all the discernment we can get.

Tom
Listening to this at the 1hr7min mark made me think of you….


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