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#9386 Wed Dec 24, 2003 11:58 PM
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See Him in a manger laid,
Whom the choirs of angels praise;
Mary, Joseph, lend your aid,
While our hearts in love we raise.

Does line 3 of this verse appear Roman Catholic to you, or not? Is the verse speaking to the characters in the narrative story as it is told? In my own experience, this verse of the song is seldom sung.

Happy Festival of the Incarnation <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/joy.gif" alt="" />


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
MarieP #9387 Thu Dec 25, 2003 1:03 AM
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I don't see anything RC about it, after all Mary and Joseph were part of the Christmas story.

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No problem from my viewpoint.

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OK...I was wondering about the "lend your aid" part.


True godliness is a sincere feeling which loves God as Father as much as it fears and reverences Him as Lord, embraces His righteousness, and dreads offending Him worse than death~ Calvin
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If that verse is the 3rd verse, you are prolly not going to hear it if you attend a Southern Baptist church! They have a tendency to sing first and last or first second and last. The 3rd verse is, as one member of the church I am serving at calls, the lost Baptist verse! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/jester.gif" alt="" />

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Actually, taking a second look, perhaps you are right. I originally connected the "lend your aid" with their care for the infant Jesus. Looking at it again, the "lend your aid" seems to be in connection with "While our hearts in love we raise", suggesting that they are assisting us in praising God for this act. I suppose it could be some "poetic license" in calling upon the church triumphant to join in with us in our praise of Christ, but perhaps it is more influenced by the expanding role of the "communion of the saints" throughout medieval theology. Any idea when it was written?

Interesting question.

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I always thought it was lending your aid to the praises sung by choirs of angels...

Which is unscriptural, by the way. The angels didn't sing.

MarieP #9393 Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:05 PM
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We can probably find flaw in many hymns.. not to mention choruses.. oy, but unless we sing psalms we have to remember we're singing something imperfect.


"There is nothing that keeps wicked men at any one moment out of hell, but the mere pleasure of God." - Jonathan Edwards
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The_Saint said:
We can probably find flaw in many hymns.. not to mention choruses.. oy, but unless we sing psalms we have to remember we're singing something imperfect.
That is certainly true..... BUT.... it is also true in regard to singing Psalms for most all of the Psalmody we sing is "versified", i.e., the words have been changed to one degree or another to accommodate the English language and "rhyme".

It is also important to remember, and this applies particularly to those awful "choruses", that the theology conveyed is not altered by the selection sung. It is easy to distort the truth of a Biblical passage sung by taking the passage out of it's original context and thus changing the intent of the inspired author's words to create error/heresy through the "art" of ommission. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Pilgrim said:
It is also important to remember, and this applies particularly to those awful "choruses", that the theology conveyed is not altered by the selection sung.


One such “awful chorus” example: My daughter relayed to me that during worship services, my 5 year old granddaughter has been unknowingly substituting the word exhausted for the word exalted in the following chorus:

He is exalted
The King is exalted on high
I will praise Him,
He is exalted, forever exalted,
and I will praise His name.

I think that changes the meaning slightly. Excusable for a five year old, I guess.

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Pilgrim,

Sounds like not much is safe. Reckon it's alright if we just humm?

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Dave,

That is soooooo funny! [Linked Image] I'm sure that the LORD God got a chuckle over that as well, when she sang her praises to Him. Doubtless, providentially having to oversee all the creation seems like an exhausting prospect to us human "beans". And it is reassuring to realize that the Lord is not like one of us. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In His Grace,


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Stucco said:
Pilgrim,

Sounds like not much is safe. Reckon it's alright if we just humm?
Sure... go ahead and hummmmm all you like! <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> My point was that it isn't just "hymns" and "choruses" which are susceptible to error, but rather any and all types of vocal communication, including the Metrical Psalms. Knowing that should stir one to be cautious about how they write music for the Church and/or for their own personal use.

I doubt there is anything that we do is perfect. However, be that as it may, we are commanded and encouraged to sing unto the Lord. And thus that is what we must and should want to do, but to the best of our abilities, discerning that which proceeds from our lips.

See here: Congregational Singing and the Ministry of the Word.

And here: Evaluating Music Intended for Christian Worship and Enjoyment.

In His Grace,


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<img src="/forum/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

Good thing the Spirit helps with our weaknesses! (Romans 8:26) <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

~Jason

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Let's hope she doesn't appeal to God resting on the Sabbath to say He's exhausted <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/drop.gif" alt="" />

Seriously, it's times like those where she can rejoice in teaching her child why we sing what we sing. I pray that your grandaughter will grow in the knowledge of Christ, who is exalted but also "exhausted" Himself on our behalf.

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