The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Predestination

I have no proble accepting all that you stated here, its just that somehow have a hard time reconciling God directly determing a Hiler, or causing ISIS to chop off heads?

So the predetermined plans of God are fulfilled by those such as Isis doing what they "wanted to do?"

Isaiah 46:9-10 (ASV) "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; [I am] God, and there is none like me; declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times things that are not [yet] done; saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure;"

Romans 9:14-24 (ASV) "What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, For this very purpose did I raise thee up, that I might show in thee my power, and that my name might be published abroad in all the earth. So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will be hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory, [even] us, whom he also called, not from the Jews only, but also from the Gentiles?"

This is in refernce to God raising up and using the Pharoah of the Exodus event, does He do that all the time, or use spersons in such fashion for special occusions?

Daniel 4:34-35 (ASV) "And at the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the Most High, and I praised and honored him that liveth for ever; for his dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom from generation to generation. And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?"

Isaiah 14:24,27 (ASV) "Jehovah of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely, as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:...For Jehovah of hosts hath purposed, and who shall annul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?"

Isaiah 45:7 (KJV) "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things]."

Isaiah 55:10-11 (ASV) "For as the rain cometh down and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, and giveth seed to the sower and bread to the eater; so shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

So the predetermined plans of God are fulfilled by those such as Isis doing what they "wanted to do?"

The Prdestined will of God is one of the hardest things for many Christians to get a handle on!

The Prdestined will of God is one of the hardest things for many Christians to get a handle on!

One of the problems that I run into is that Christians understand that concept to mean that all of us are like a Hitler, all bad as we can be, but fail to see that it means that none of can can do anything to save us now!