The Highway Forums General Discussion Theology Discussion Forum Infant baptism

I've heard a bit about this here and there on this board over the past little while. Can someone give me a good synopsis on how infant baptism is Biblical? I've grown up believing that it is a well-intentioned vestige of Roman Catholicism, but some on here seem to believe that it comes straight from Scripture.

Oh man now you've gone and done it. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/flee.gif" alt="flee" title="flee[/img] <br><br>Start here: Means of Grace Baptism<br>and read this: The Polemics of Infant Baptism<br>and this: The Sacremental Principle: Infant Baptism by William Cunningham<br>this: Infant Baptism: An Introduction by Pierre Ch. Marcel <br>not to mention this:Baptismal Regeneration" - Mark 16:15, 16 by Charles H. Spurgeon <br><br>Someone get ahold of Howard and tell him we need a synopsis but quick! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]

Be careful! This subject has the potential to create an explosion! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/takethat.gif" alt="takethat" title="takethat[/img]<br>But we all have much too nice manners to ever let that happen, right? [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]<br>Susan

The Biblical doctrine of Infant Baptism is the replacement of the Biblical doctrine of Infant Circumcision.....................<br><br>There is much to read on the Highway about it and I will send you a little primer on the subject should you wish. Suffice to say , most here are paedobaptists and adhere to the WCF. <br><br>Many here that were baptists , including myself, have discovered the Biblical TRUTH of Infant Baptism and as a result see Gods plan of redemptive history as a continueous thread rather than the dispensational dis-continuety that "blinds " baptists.<br><br>You will not learn much of these truths whilst attending an Open Brethren place by the way. Find yourself a decent Presbyterian place with good Pastors, Deacons and Elders who should be better equiped to teach you these things IMHO.<br><br>If you make a SERIOUS study of the NT , then Matthew 1:1 will send you straight back to the OT where you will discover all about David and Abraham and thus Covenant Theology and Infant Baptism .<br><br>howard

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Many here that were baptists , including myself, have discovered the Biblical TRUTH of Infant Baptism and as a result see Gods plan of redemptive history as a continueous thread rather than the dispensational dis-continuety that "blinds " baptists.</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>(Fred) Ahhh, Howard.... How I have missed your senseless, sophomoric, inflammatory rhetoric. <br><br>Welcome back!!! [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/cheers.gif" alt="cheers" title="cheers[/img]<br><br>Fred

Okaaay... how about some words from the other side? I know we've got Baptists on here somewhere!<br><br>By the way, I am in full realization that this is quite an inflammitory subject. Let's remember: attack ideas, not the people who hold those ideas!

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"] (Fred) Ahhh, Howard.... How I have missed your senseless, sophomoric, inflammatory rhetoric. Welcome back!!! </font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Don't inflammate, devastate.......through proper debate. Now, could we get a Baptist to show how the Church failed on this one for so long? I've put up a thread just for this here<br><br>Who Departed<br><br><br>God bless,<br><br>william

Henry,<br><br>Like my physical exercising, I've trimmed this discussion down the bare bones as well. In a nutshell, God's promise to save Abraham and his "seed" was without any conditions (Genesis 17:7). Abraham responded to God's unconditional promise of salvation in faith, which was first issued in Genesis 12, whereby he was justified (Genesis 15:6). Although God promised Abraham and his elect son Isaac salvation, God rejected Ishmael (Genesis 17:18-21). Nonetheless, Ishmael was to receive the outward sign of the covenant-promise, which was circumcision (Genesis 17:10ff). In other words, God "administered" his covenant sign with the household of Abraham, even though God only "established" his covenant with the elect in Christ. The apostle Paul reminds us in Romans nine that the promise of salvation was not intended for every single person whom the outward administration of the covenant was to be administered. In fact, he tells us explicitly that the children of the "promise" are counted as Abraham's seed, and not the children of the flesh (Romans 9:8). Accordingly, all those who believe the promise are the true children of Abraham (Romans 9: 8; Galatians 3:9). Most importantly, the "seed" to whom the promise was made was actually Christ alone (Galatians 3:16). It is through union with Christ, the one seed, that we become the seed of Abraham. As Galatians 3:29 states, "If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, and heirs according to the promise." <br><br>We must keep in mind that Abraham was not Jewish. Sure, Israel according the flesh eventually came from Abraham's loins, but the promise was that Abraham would be the father of many nations. Israel did not even become a nation until 430 years after God called Abraham according to the promise (Galatians 3:17). So, contrary to what so many in the church today think, the sign of circumcision had primarily spiritual significance and not national or ethnic significance. As Romans 4:11 states, "[Abraham] received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith..." The verse does not state that Abraham received the sign of circumcision, a seal of his ethnic origin. <br><br>In essence, God always had an elect people, which he formed into a nation about 2400 years into redemptive history. Now, God has taken the kingdom away from the nation of Israel and has started his final building project in the church. The church is the international people of God. Which is to say, when one is converted to Christ they need not become part of the nation of Israel; for Christ has sent his followers into the world to make disciples of all nations. <br><br>Finally, God commanded 4,000 years ago that the sign of the covenant be placed upon the males within the household of professing believers. Although the sign has changed from circumcision to baptism, God never rescinded the principle concerning the subjects who were to receive the sign and seal of the covenant promise. In the same way that all Israel was not Israel, all the church is not the church. Nonetheless, we are to place the sign of membership in the church upon those who qualify, per the instruction of God.<br><br>In His Grace,<br><br>Ron<br>

Ron,<br><br>Great summary of the biblical precedence for paedobaptism and especially of the continuity and universality of God's covenant of grace.! <br><br>

[img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/rofl.gif" alt="rofl" title="rofl[/img]<br>I must admit, I missed the interestering posts between both of you guys.<br><br><br>Carlos

Question 31: With whom was the covenant of grace made?<br><br>Answer: The covenant of grace was made with Christ as the second Adam, and in him with all the elect as his seed.<br><br>Pilgrim,<br><br>Had I been familiar with this Q&A from the WLC, I might have saved myself much time constructing a paradigm. Those guys were amazing.<br><br>Ron<br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]By the way, I am in full realization that this is quite an inflammitory subject. Let's remember: attack ideas, not the people who hold those ideas!</font><hr></blockquote><p> <br><br>(Fred) Howard has quite a reputation for the truly inflammatory and if you know his history over the last year or so on this board and others, you can understand my tongue in cheek remarks. I can assure you, there is nothing ad hominem with my comments.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Okaaay... how about some words from the other side? I know we've got Baptists on here somewhere!</font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>(Fred) Yes, we are here, counted and present. The issue is that this discussion has been haggled over on so many previous occasions, that many of the paedo and credoes tire of it. There is nothing left of the carcass of this proverbial horse to beat. <br>However, seeing that you are newish here, I can point you to a recent discussion of about a month or so ago. It involves mostly a disagreement between two prebyterian camps, but I chime in with baptist views about mid-way through.<br><br>Fred Malone discussion<br><br>AND, I recently commented to a Lutheran fellow on another board as to why I believe baptismal regeneration is unbiblical. Some of the arguments I utilize can also be applied to the paedo position. At least in my opinion.<br><br>Luther and baptismal regeneration <br><br>Scroll down about mid way and you can read some of my interchanges that outlines my take on infant baptism.<br><br>The long and short of the disagreement comes down to hermeneutics. Both sides make presuppositions on how to approach the scripture, particularly how the NT and OT fit together, and how the covenants unfold and are administered in God's redemptive purposes. Hence, the understanding of the issue of baptism springs forth from those hermeneutical presuppositions.<br><br>Fred

Maybe I'm missing something, but can you point me to chapter and verse where we are told that baptism has replaced circumcision, or that they both follow the same rules? This is a huge, and unwarranted, presupposition, from my perspective.

Ahh, I see. Thanks for the info, Fred.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]can you point me to chapter and verse where we are told that baptism has replaced circumcision</font><hr></blockquote><p>Sure thing:<blockquote>Colossians 2:11-12 (ASV) "in whom ye were also circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, in the putting off of the body of the flesh, in the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead."</blockquote><br><br>