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#9187 Wed Dec 17, 2003 9:56 PM
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What are your perspectives on the most recent version of Credenda/Agenda re: the New Perspective on Paul?

#9188 Thu Dec 18, 2003 6:40 AM
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Just read a critique on Wilsons "reformed is not enough" entitled "Reformed is definitely enough" by McMahon at puritansmind.com<br><br>It appears that Wilson has moved from error to out and out rank heresy along with Barach, Wilkins and Schlissel.<br><br>I have not read Wilsons book btw , but he remains silent towards his critiqes ( as most heretics do [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img].<br><br>The bottom line in McMahons critique is : " He (Wilson) has traded in salvation for works."<br><br>Wilson is leaning toward Baptismal Regeneration whereas McMahon advocates Presumptive Regeneration .

#9189 Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:09 AM
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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>[color:"blue"]Wilson is leaning toward Baptismal Regeneration whereas McMahon advocates Presumptive Regeneration . </font><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Will you please explain the difference between baptismal regeneration and presumptive regeneration?


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
gotribe #9190 Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:13 AM
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Those that hold to BR believe that baptism regenerates.<br><br>Those that hold to PR presume the infants of believers are christians and treat them accordingly.

#9191 Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:16 AM
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You may enjoy this page: Auburn Avenue Controversy Homepage


Reformed and Always Reforming,
J_Edwards #9192 Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:19 AM
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You may also like to re-read the "antipaedobaptist Fred Malone - a critique" thread in the Book Nook forum [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]

gotribe #9193 Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:52 AM
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This little study may assist in a better understanding of these two different views of baptism. Bible Doctrine by James W. Beeke.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
J_Edwards #9194 Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:09 AM
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BINGO!


Trust the past to God's mercy, the present to God's love and the future to God's providence." - St. Augustine
Hiraeth
J_Edwards #9195 Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:52 AM
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Joe,<br><br>I looked at that page you linked to and aside from the glaring typo (regerneration) in the image's title and some in the text [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh[/img], I was wondering if you would give assent to his conclusion; the highlighted section in particular:<blockquote><span style="background-color:yellow;">This line of distinction and judgment of whether one is outwardly or inwardly related to the covenant, saved or yet unsaved, is to be made personally between God and one's own soul based solely upon Scripture. Church officebearers or members are not to judge others, but themselves.</span> The church's duty, in this respect, is to preach and teach the scriptural marks and fruits of God's regenerating grace. We may not subtract from, nor add to, the Godgiven scriptural marks, but we are to teach, learn, and examir ourselves by them.</blockquote>In His Grace,


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simul iustus et peccator

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Pilgrim #9196 Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:11 AM
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Please follow the arrows at the bottom of the page he gives the DIFFERENT views of baptism from presumptive/baptismal regeneration, which was the question asked.<br><br>No, I do not like the way that is worded, for elders (those in authority, et. al.) do need to make judgments, based upon profession and fruit, et. al. IMHO he characterizes the church with too little discernment. The 1st century Church had much more discernment (Ananias and Sapphira, et. al.). Of course, I do not agree with some of the other theology in the Heritage Netherlands Reformed Church as well. As with anything that we link to here, especially with the vast resources on this particular site in question, we have to tempter each sentence we read with the Word of God. Thus, while there are some other errors at the site, there is much there that is of value as well, such as his diagrams explaining PR, etc. [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile[/img]


Reformed and Always Reforming,
#9197 Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:10 PM
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sad I ahve a friend who goes there to new st andrews-blade

#9198 Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:12 PM
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ditto-blade

J_Edwards #9199 Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:01 AM
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Joe , that site is run by James W Beeke NOT Joel R Beeke [img]http://www.the-highway.com/w3timages/icons/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin[/img]

#9200 Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:31 AM
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Yes, I know. That is what I put on my post.


Reformed and Always Reforming,
#9201 Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:27 AM
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Maybe I'm at the top of the mailing list for Credenda/Agenda, but as far as Wilson remaining silent, the new issue is all about his response to his supposed heresy. I haven't gone through it yet, and judging by the responses here, no one else has either. Let me know if you read it and believe that it adds anything more to the "debate."

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