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Tom
Kelowna, British Columbia, Canada
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Joined: Apr 2001
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David_P said: Ok, I'm a little confused by this. Is justification and regeneration the same thing? Or they are 2 things that occur at the same time? They are decidedly mutually exclusive yet inseparable. 1) Regeneration (narrowly defined) is that act of God by which the principle of the new life (new birth) is implanted in man, and the governing disposition of the soul is made holy, and the first holy exercise of this new disposition is secured. In short it is the sovereign work of the Holy Spirit whereby the natural hatred of God which all men are born with which produces their inability to love God and His commandments (total depravity) is, in principle, eradicated and a new nature is created which is prone to love God and all that is good. See more here: The Nature, Causes and Means of Regeneration, by John Owen Regeneration or the New Birth, by A.W. Pink The New Genesis: The Holy Spirit and Regeneration, by R.C. Sproul Regeneration and Conversion, by Samuel Hopkins 2) Justification is the judicial pronouncement of God upon a sinner who has repented of his/her sins and believes upon the Lord Christ, in regard to His person and atoning work. See more here: Sola Fide - Justification by FaithLamenting further, you wrote: Now I am HECTICALLY confused! Hehe! I recall being convicted of sin and my hopelessness before God BEFORE I was saved by grace through faith. Doesn't the inward call (i.e. conviction of sin and realising one's total depravity) start to happen BEFORE one is regenerated? Or am I misunderstanding what the inward call is? Yes, you are misunderstanding what the "inward call" is. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Before regeneration, no one has any real interest whatsoever in God, Christ or salvation, never mind seeing themselves as a filthy sinner who stands guilty before God and is liable to judgment. In regeneration, see above, the new nature is created within the soul, the fruit of which is conviction of sin, desire for reconciliation God, recognition of the all sufficiency and loveliness of Christ and a hunger after righteousness. This result of regeneration is called, "conversion", i.e., the expressed sentiments of the new heart created in regeneration. Conversion will immediately and infallibly follow regeneration. The "inward call" (aka: irresistible grace) is most always connected to an "outward call"; e.g., the preaching/reading of the Gospel (Scriptures) through which the Holy Spirit works within. See more here: Irresistible Grace, by John Murray Efficacious Grace, by Loraine Boettner The Call that Brings a Response, by Paul Helm Throwing up of his hands, David finally writes: I still don't understand how they can come to salvation without hearing/reading/grasping/understanding the way of salvation. Are you implying that God reveals His plan of salvation to those people through spiritual means? Is there Scripture to back this up? What I believe you need to grasp is that "normally", God uses outward means to regenerate, call, justify and sanctify the elect. These are applicable to those who are physically and mentally capable of apprehending them. Yet, what actually brings salvation is the sovereign spiritual (invisible) work of the Holy Spirit in the elect's soul, which "normally" is expressed outwardly and visibly. However, when regeneration occurs, the natural and infallible response of the new nature is a reaching out to God. The fact that it may not be perceptible does not negate its reality. In the case of an unborn infant, whom God has determined to call to Himself from the womb, the Holy Spirit works the same regeneration, i.e., creating a new nature, which is irresistibly drawn to God by design. That reaching out to God in an adult, for example, is always perceptible and it is called, "repentance" and "belief". But the impetus behind those outward expressions is that new nature. Beyond that, that is how the soul of an unborn infant or mentally retarded individual who is of the elect takes hold of Christ is something which I am not privy to. As for providing Scripture for all this, I would point you to all the texts which speak of the very design and purpose of regeneration, i.e., to reconcile a sinner to God through a union with Christ. Since God has ordained the salvation of the elect and likewise ordained the means of calling and justifying them, ALL such are infallibly saved. Well, I hope the above fares better at clearing things up a little for you. <img src="/forum/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> In His Grace,
simul iustus et peccator
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Entire Thread
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Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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David_P
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Sun Jun 12, 2005 2:13 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Reformation Monk
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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thredj
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Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:46 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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The Doctor
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:23 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Wes
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:51 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Peter
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:15 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Delivered
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Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:03 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Delivered
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Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:24 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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BradJHammond
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Thu May 24, 2007 4:39 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Tom
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Sun Jun 12, 2005 5:17 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 13, 2005 11:28 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 13, 2005 2:11 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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David_P
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Mon Jun 13, 2005 3:02 PM
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doulos
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Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:08 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 13, 2005 5:48 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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David_P
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Mon Jun 13, 2005 7:22 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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doulos
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Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:35 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:50 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 14, 2005 1:04 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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BradJHammond
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Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:55 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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J_Edwards
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Tue Jun 14, 2005 9:59 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Tom
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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:45 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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J_Edwards
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Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:05 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Tom
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Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:54 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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doulos
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Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:59 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Pilgrim
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Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:09 PM
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 14, 2005 3:51 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:46 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:28 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 17, 2005 10:47 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Pilgrim
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Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:21 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Anonymous
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Sat Jun 18, 2005 11:06 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Pilgrim
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Sat Jun 18, 2005 6:08 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:03 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Pilgrim
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Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:45 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Anonymous
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Sun Jun 19, 2005 7:41 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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CovenantInBlood
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Sun Jun 19, 2005 10:25 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Anonymous
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Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:38 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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CovenantInBlood
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Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:36 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:08 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:03 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Anonymous
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:34 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 11:14 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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CovenantInBlood
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:41 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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BradJHammond
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Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:51 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Anonymous
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Fri Jun 17, 2005 9:43 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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CovenantInBlood
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Fri Jun 17, 2005 4:33 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Tom
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Wed Jun 15, 2005 6:31 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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David_P
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Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:43 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Pilgrim
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Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:00 PM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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David_P
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:06 AM
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Re: Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded
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Pilgrim
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Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:56 AM
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