The Highway Forums General Discussion Open Forum Babies, toddlers and the mentally retarded

But no one here has ever even hinted that one's "exercising of faith" is what justifies. In fact, this is something which the majority of us here have opposed and exposed as error for as long as I can remember. It is your own error (extremism and tunnel-vision) which drives you to object to that which doesn't even exist and make at best, foolish statements which against Scripture. Secondly, you didn't offer any "explanation" to your bold statement: "It is not the exercise of faith that justifies but [color:"red"]faith itself that justifies[/color]", other than to say that faith is not a work but a gift of God. That is hardly a defense for the "poor wording" used. Thirdly, you are hardly any "Reformer" and have shown to be fraught with errors and have opposed the doctrines held by the Reformers over and over again. To suggest that your words, even when similar to that written by any of the Reformers should be taken at face value is almost humorous. And lastly, it would be foolish for me to allow you to say that "faith itself justifies" was widely used and understood by the "Reformers" and therefore I should have understood what you meant. I offer but one man's words; John Calvin who certainly was one of the "Reformers", to show that this too is not true. And notice that a real explanation is included with his words.

[color:"blue"]BOOK III CHAPTER 11 SECTION 7
THE SIGNIFICANCE OF FAITH FOR JUSTIFICATION

When he [Osiander] objects that the power of justifying exists not in faith, considered in itself, but only as receiving Christ, I willingly admit it. For did faith justify of itself, or (as it is expressed) by its own intrinsic virtue, as it is always weak and imperfect, its efficacy would be partial, and thus our righteousness being maimed would give us only a portion of salvation. We indeed imagine nothing of the kind, but say, that, properly speaking, God alone justifies. The same thing we likewise transfer to Christ, because he was given to us for righteousness; while we compare faith to a kind of vessel, because we are incapable of receiving Christ, unless we are emptied and come with open mouth to receive his grace. Hence it follows, that we do not withdraw the power of justifying from Christ, when we hold that, previous to his righteousness, he himself is received by faith. Still, however, I admit not the tortuous figure of the sophist, that faith is Christ; as if a vessel of clay were a treasure, because gold is deposited in it. And yet this is no reason why faith, though in itself of no dignity or value, should not justify us by giving Christ; Just as such a vessel filled with coin may give wealth. I say, therefore, that faith, which is only the instrument for receiving justification, is ignorantly confounded with Christ, who is the material cause, as well as the author and minister of this great blessing. This disposes of the difficulty, viz., how the term faith is to be understood when treating of justification.

Now, how about going: . . . or else begin a new topic on the subject of the nature of faith and/or justification.

In His Grace,